White Boxer

[alncris]

I don't have all the details yet, but apparently the German Boxer Club (BK) is voting or has already voted to change the standard to include the white boxer.
If so the white boxer will no longer be considered a fault.
They will include a clause to state they can also be bred from as long as deafness is not present.
I am unsure where the FCI stands with regards to this.
I wonder how this will affect the ABC and AKC standard.
I have always said a white boxer is still a boxer except for color, but as others I am somewhat concerned with introducing them into the gene pool.
Another question that comes to mind is if in the US the standard is changed will the AKC allow current white owners to change their limited registration to full/open registration. Who will certify that the dog is not deaf?
Interested in hearing your thoughts.
 

[BoxerWB]

I don't think the ABC will be changing that quickly if it does follow suit.  And for the AKC, being a fairly busy registry, I don't see them switching up old registrations. I'm guessing it would be for all dogs going forward.

Where did you hear about this move in Germany? It seems odd to me that certifying they aren't deaf is all that's asked - according the limited gene info I recall, a white puppy from a colored parent/hearing breeding can still end up deaf, so adding a hearing white dog doesn't eliminate that potential pitfall...

[BoxerPerson]

I find this interesting...

[alncris]

http://www.italianboxerclub.it/

has the information in pdf format in German.    
http://www.italianboxerclub.it/UserFiles/Modifica%20standard.pdf

I ran a portion of through it through google translator, which is not the best but it yielded:

"All the reasons that led to the exclusion of whites in the use in farming are no longer sustainable.
This time to say it is not - as always - Stephen Bartolini, president of the Italian Boxer Club, but the president of the Boxer Klub of Monaco, of addressing to the responsible breeding of BK, because it makes a change to the breed standard in paragraph 10 ) for the admission of white. (see attached correspondence and translation)
In spite of our initial caution we have to announce with irrepressible delight boxer in the world and lovers of our wonderful breed, that the modification of the standard with the inclusion of the color white is a done deal and imminent.
At the last meeting of heads of regional groups of breeding BK, and the leaders had agreed to recognize the color white as valid.
All the reasons that led to the exclusion of whites in the use in farming are no longer sustainable.
This dry statement cut short all the horrors and idiocies, which until recently have been said against the white boxer and his right to reproduction.
Editorial Committee of Italian Boxer Club"

I think the word farming was translated incorrectly and should read "breeding".

More translated text :

B5
The President at BK Resp Breeding (Holzhausen)
Request for change of the breed standard
AZKW me to change the breed standard as regards Nr.10 COLOR. The white color should be recognized as the standard color and not as bad ... ... ..
Justification:
At the last meeting of Resp breeding of regional groups of BK, all the leaders had agreed to recognize the color white as valid. All the reasons that led to the exclusion of whites in the use in farming are no longer sustainable.
B7
The President at BK Resp Breeding (Holzhausen)
Request to amend the rules for breeding
AZKW request changes 3c) of the Rules of Nr.7 breeding. The white color should be listed as allowed by the standard and not as a bad color.
Justification:
At the last meeting of Resp breeding of regional groups of BK, all the leaders had agreed to recognize the color white as valid. All the reasons that led to the exclusion of whites in the use in farming are no longer sustainable.
B4
The President at BK Resp Breeding (Holzhausen)
AZKW calling for changes to the committee ZTP ... .... Doe or parts must be able to obtain eligibility for playback with conditions: it must be certified that there is deafness (either unilateral or weakening) and these boxers need to be paired only with "Flush.
Justification:
At the last meeting of Resp breeding of regional groups of BK, all the leaders had agreed to recognize the color white as valid. All the reasons that led to the exclusion of whites in the use in farming today are unsustainable

[Shaeward]

Another question that comes to mind is if in the US the standard is changed will the AKC allow current white owners to change their limited registration to full/open registration.

Yes, they will. The AKC would do it today, with the breeder's permission. A limited registration can be changed to full but a full can not be changed to limited. White Boxers can already be on full registration, bred from, puppies registered, etc. according to AKC.

Who will certify that the dog is not deaf?

No one...no one certifies any of the health screenings now for registration. And as mentioned above, a white can already be placed on a full AKC registration.

[Shaeward]

I found the exact verbage of changing limited registration to full and wanted to note that the litter owner is the only person who can change a limited registration to full.

Limited Registration can be changed to Full Registration only by the litter owner(s). The litter owner(s) will need to obtain the Application to Revoke Limited Status. That form will then need to be completed and sent to our Raleigh address with the processing fee. After processing, we will send a Full Registration certificate to the dog's owner.

[fairview Boxers]

I don't know how well received it will be here in the states with ABC, remember it has to be voted on.  I know there was discussion about the possibility of this happening in the future last year, and it was a big stink....
I think the ABC still has too many long time breeders that believe white boxers shouldn't be used to accept them at this time...
I think if they are BAER tested, and required to be so... and come from healthy long lived lines, there isn't a true difference.  Pigmentation will be lost though on a whole.....

[Newcastle]

It will take quite some doing to get the ABC to change, and I'd imagine quite a few of the old guard will need to relinquish their memberships....

I'm wondering why none of this is mentioned on the German Boxer Club website, though.

I've heard the argument about the loss of pigmentation but I don't think I buy it.  The extreme piebald gene determines *where* pigment is placed, not how much.  Many white Boxers with spots or patches of color have deep pigmentation in those spots or patches.

[fairview Boxers]

From my early experience with the breed, one of my first Boxers was from lines that bred whites....  The fawns got lighter and lighter each generation (now this is being line bred/actually in bred on the white dogs in the further generations back), but when she came to me, she had LITTLE black mask left, and she was a VERY light fawn.  I saw pictures of most of the dogs in her pedigree, the closer to her generation, the lighter the fawn got, and the less mask they had!  I understand the piebald gene, but I have seen it happen, so I have to think that it will affect the pigmentation. 
Now, no further research was done by her breeder of course, they didn't care.. They were just out to make money... but I saw it for myself...not in real time or real life, but by pictures.

[Newcastle]

How was the pigmentation of the colored parents, though?  If a lighter fawn is bred to a white 'hiding' a lighter fawn, then yes, the fawns will be lighter the next generation, too, but that would be due to the lightness of the fawn parents.

[markwantsaboxer]

I wonder if some breeders will surreptitiously breed their Boxers with American Bulldogs, especially from Johnson lines.

With that influx of new genetic material, would that improve the Boxer in terms of health?

In terms of temperament conformation, the American Bulldog is also a premier big-game hunting dog, so this might lead to a sort of atavism, where 'Boxers' with American Bulldog blood will revert back to behavior that has been bred out of them over the decades.

[blynn03]

I wonder if some breeders will surreptitiously breed their Boxers with American Bulldogs, especially from Johnson lines.

With that influx of new genetic material, would that improve the Boxer in terms of health?

Well - it wouldn't still be a boxer, though, would it?

[markwantsaboxer]

I wonder if some breeders will surreptitiously breed their Boxers with American Bulldogs, especially from Johnson lines.

With that influx of new genetic material, would that improve the Boxer in terms of health?

Well - it wouldn't still be a boxer, though, would it?

Be prepared to see more dogs that look like this: http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/b/bulloxer.htm

[BoxerWB]

Mark/King - What information leads you to believe breeders would mix their lines with another breed?

[alncris]

Sorry, not impressed with the photos of those dogs. Not sure what the standard calls for in the American bulldog, but I can tell you this....they have terrible conformation for boxers.