Debates Forum/Political Threads/Etc.

[Newcastle]

This is the issue we see that most often leads to threads getting edited or locked - not so much that people disagree, but that they make it personal.  Rich, I know it's not your intention, but it does seem to happen quite frequently in many threads in which you become involved.  (It happens to me, as well, here and moreso on other forums, so I know the difficulty of people taking what's written in a way that is entirely different from what was intended!)  I can see where Bers' comment about "the one making the most complaints" might be considered a personal statement about you, Rich, if you feel that you are the one making the most complaints - but there's no getting around the fact that "Your negative editorilizations are getting tiresome" and "you have gone off 'half cocked'" are personal 'attacks' (a bit stronger of a word than I'd use, but I can't think of a more appropriate milder one offhand) on Amber.  Even, in another thread, when I mentioned that some people feel their freedoms are being impinged upon, your response of "Now that is just silly, at best" certainly implies that those who feel that way are silly. 

This is the one rule that I personally will be excessively strict about in a 'debate' forum - passions are expected to run high, and that's fine, but the discussion needs to stick to the issues.  Normally I would delete those statements (and, as in the past, be accused of "censorship" ) - I'm leaving them here simply to illustrate the point. 

I should also note that normally I would make this a personal message rather than on the open forum, but I think the pattern has been repeated often enough here lately - and certainly not only by Rich - that it's best to get it all out in the open.  I am sorry, Rich, to use you as an example, but your timing was quite apt.

[Bumpy]

There have been subtle digs flying left and right as off late. You all need to just agree to disagree and move on. I refrained from getting involved mostly due to not being around that day but to keep dragging this on is getting old. Both sides have thrown digs........ now kiss and make up.

[Bearsmom]

no kiss and make up.

Bumpy, I'm sure you meant NOW kiss and make up, right?  That one little letter makes a BIG difference! 

[Bumpy]

Yes.....Now. Thanks. 

[BuckAndCalliesBro]

I don't mind being used as an example, not something to be proud of for sure, but I can deal with it.  I however do not appreciate it when a moderator engages in the very activity that as a group they condemn.  Of course everyone has their own views and ideas, but I do not think it out of place to expect moderators, as enforcers of the forum guidelines, to be held to a higher standard.  And that's all I care to say on this matter, as everything that needs to be said has been.

[Newcastle]

I know a lot of people feel that moderators should be held to higher standards, but for this type of forum, I disagree.  (There are large forums where the mods/admins aren't especially active in conversations, spending most of their time with mod/admin duties, where this might be more appropriate.)  I think the moderators here should be held to *the same* standards as members - and we all have been and will continue to be moderated by the others when necessary.  (One difference is that sometimes we *ask* for it - kind of a "this thread is getting heated and I'm losing my objectivity" thing - whereas most members don't. )  But moderators are human, too - we're just as prone to bad days, fits of pique, rants/vents, etc., as anyone else here, and I don't feel that the fact that we also volunteer our time to administrate the board (most of which does not involve editing threads or posts, but the more mundane stuff like fixing forum errors, creating new themes, moving threads to the appropriate forum, etc.) should mean that we need to check our humanism at the door.

(And in fairness, yes, I can see that Amber's earlier "deal with it" would be considered personal toward you - it's not something we would normally moderate because it's not really an 'insult', per se, but I would have mentioned it if I'd remembered it when I was typing my last post. )

[Bumpy]

                  C'mon...... you know you want to......

[BainGhana]

I will be honest here...I know I am new but hey this is a question of opinion after all is it not?

I voted to ban both political and religious debates altogether...Personally this is a site for boxer lovers (hence the name)
If I want to hear, read or talk politics there are plenty of sites out there for that purpose...
and of course where religion is concerned...That's what church is for.

Sorry If my opinion or views disturb anyone not intended to offend.

[blynn03]

I will be honest here...I know I am new but hey this is a question of opinion after all is it not?

I voted to ban both political and religious debates altogether...Personally this is a site for boxer lovers (hence the name)
If I want to hear, read or talk politics there are plenty of sites out there for that purpose...
and of course where religion is concerned...That's what church is for.

Sorry If my opinion or views disturb anyone not intended to offend.

I can completely understand where you are coming from.  BUT, the one thing I want to add (which is why I voted to have a separate debate forum rather than banning the topics all together), is that over time, a lot of us have become friends.  A lot of us have met in person (admittedly, I've only met Julia)....but there was even a boxer bash that several members went to last summer.  The point is, a lot of people here, myself included, view some of the other members as friends...and I think we should have the right to discuss whatever we choose with our friends that are willing to do the same.

We have a pretty informal/friendly forum set up.  That's why I like this forum better than any other forum I've been on (dog/boxer-related or not).  If this question were being asked on a more formal forum that stricter rules and moderating, it would be completely reasonable to ban off-subject topics (i.e. anything nondog-related).  But since we ARE so friendly...I just don't see why we shouldn't have the freedom to discuss the topics of our choosing.


EDIT:  I just wanted to add....I know I've gotten heated on here a couple times, but for the most part, I try to avoid things that might really set me off.  Even if I read something (i.e. the VP drinking game thread) that might irk me, I usually avoid responding.  I think rather than banning anything all-together, we ought to have the right to use our own personal discretion about what we read/participate in.

[LauniBug]

I agree with Brandy... that a lot of us have become friends and like to be able to talk about whatever we want. I'll admit, these days I come here more for chatting about other things than just about Boxers. The fact that almost everyone here owns one is just an added bonus to me.

I think it was Amber who said something about sometimes not being up for a "debate" and I completely agree there too. Sometimes I'm into it, other times I'm not.

I still think we should have a separate section that we can choose to visit when we want to.

[Boxermom,K]

I think a seperate section for debates, hot topics, politics, etc. would be good. This way those of us who don't want to even read it can just stay away from it and those who might have something to say sure can. It might alleviate some of the hurt feelings that there have been in the past.

I think sometimes that the heated debates are a way for people to get things off their mind, express their opinions and make them known. For the most part we are all mature enough to keep it at that and have no hard feelings outside of the topic.

 

[BurningRiver]

I agree with a lot of what's been said here. If a separate forum is created, those who might be offended or wish not to read can simply by pass the forum. If they choose to participate. . . Well. . . They can't say they didn't know what they were getting into.

I'm one who doesn't have time to discuss politics much of the time, and I tend to try to stay away from these types of threads if I know I won't have the time to dedicate toward carrying on an intelligent discussion. I don't feel that it does anyone good for an individual to enter a heated topic thread and say, "I think it stinks!" and then just run back out without shaping their position or wrapping their statement in context. It's not to say that I don't enjoy reading these types of topics on both sides either. I've found that even though I may not agree with someone on something, I'm at least 1,000 times more educated on their side of the issue, rather than just automatically assuming that they're uninformed on the topic.