Author Topic: Resource Guarding  (Read 18149 times)

AandWBoxers

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Re: Resource Guarding
« Reply #45 on: January 21, 2009, 09:20:21 AM »
Chances are is this is a learned behavior neutering will most likely not change.  Neutering in general does not change a dog's behavior.  That's what the Vets among others would like us all to believe.  ::)

I was really hoping that wouldn't be the case.  I'm beginning to believe we bit off more than we can chew by rescuing Rex.   :embarassed:

Wendy
Mocha, CGC 4/26/04  :sombrero:    Mugs 9/27/08  :devilish:    Axel 7/21/10  :puppy:
Max, CGC, TP 5/3/03 - 8/27/09  :angel:

blynn03

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Re: Resource Guarding
« Reply #46 on: January 21, 2009, 09:22:51 AM »
It may turn out that Rex is meant to be the alpha among the dogs...you can't necessarily "make" Max the alpha just because you want him to be.  You CAN manage them to where there are no troubles....you can show them what is acceptible behavior and what is not....but if Rex is meant to be an alpha dog and Max isn't, you can't force it.

I agree with Vicky....it is doubtful that neutering will alter Rex's desire to compete for pack status.
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Bugsys Mom

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Re: Resource Guarding
« Reply #47 on: January 21, 2009, 09:25:18 AM »
Chances are is this is a learned behavior neutering will most likely not change.  Neutering in general does not change a dog's behavior.  That's what the Vets among others would like us all to believe.  ::)

I was really hoping that wouldn't be the case.  I'm beginning to believe we bit off more than we can chew by rescuing Rex.   :embarassed:

I think you need to give it some more time.  They will adapt and be fine as long as you let them all know that it is YOU who is the "alpha"  :)
Vicky

blynn03

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Re: Resource Guarding
« Reply #48 on: January 21, 2009, 09:26:28 AM »
I'm beginning to believe we bit off more than we can chew by rescuing Rex.   :embarassed:


Don't give up on him yet!  You've only had him for a couple weeks, right?  This REALLY doesn't sound like something that can't be fixed with some NILF training.....don't get discouraged!
*Brandy*

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AandWBoxers

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Re: Resource Guarding
« Reply #49 on: January 21, 2009, 10:04:24 AM »
What is NILF training?

Wendy
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Max, CGC, TP 5/3/03 - 8/27/09  :angel:

Bugsys Mom

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Re: Resource Guarding
« Reply #50 on: January 21, 2009, 10:05:41 AM »
What is NILF training?
It means Nothing in Life is Free.  You control all the resources.
http://www.dogo.org/Education/NILF.htm

It also develops a stronger bond with your dogs.
Vicky

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Re: Resource Guarding
« Reply #51 on: January 21, 2009, 10:35:27 AM »
Four - I had to institute some very strict rules in the last couple weeks...my big male Goofy and my wee westie got into it...I thought Ollie (Westie) lost his eyesight.  I have been working very hard with them with NILF to get them to do as I say...not what they please and they are rewarded ONLY if they do what I want (eat/outside/treats/bed sleeping etc)It is tuff since OH isn't quite "with it" in the training department.  I made it CLEAR this is how it has to be so I don't have any more vet bills because of fighting! 

It still is a work in progress, and always will be...

I would reccommend reading "Leader of the Pack" by Patricia McConnell, it helps explain things.  There are many great books out there, any that have to do with NIFL training would also help.
Claire-Mom to Ollie, Zoe, Phoebe, Willie & Snookie

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AandWBoxers

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Re: Resource Guarding
« Reply #52 on: January 21, 2009, 12:00:41 PM »
Thanks for all the info.  I do train our dogs like that.  Rewarding only when they do what WE want, etc.  It is so difficult to us to train these 2 young puppies at the same time, even when we are in separate rooms with them.  It seems to take twice as long when they are so distracted all the time. 
Work at it we will! 

Wendy
Mocha, CGC 4/26/04  :sombrero:    Mugs 9/27/08  :devilish:    Axel 7/21/10  :puppy:
Max, CGC, TP 5/3/03 - 8/27/09  :angel:

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Re: Resource Guarding
« Reply #53 on: January 21, 2009, 12:53:29 PM »
First of all, I don't think you should give up on Rex just yet. We had a few scuffles over food when Lucy first joined our pack. It sounds like that's what you guys had - just a scuffle. Chances are pretty good you can still work this out.

Another point about NILF - it's more than just rewarding good behavior, it's a total philosophy on how you interact with your dogs. When a new dog comes into the pack it's a good idea to get everyone on a strict NILF program. The reason for doing this is twofold: it takes away the opportunity for tension that will arise over resources if free access is given, and it gives everyone a chance to relax knowing that you are in charge of everything and no one has to worry about who's getting access to what. Be fair and consistent with everyone. That means everybody has to sit and wait to go outside, one at a time. Everyone has to sit (or down, or whatever you ask them to do) and wait before being fed, before getting treats, before being petted, or having access to furniture and toys. Every resource available to your pack should be under your strict control.
Amber


AandWBoxers

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Re: Resource Guarding
« Reply #54 on: January 21, 2009, 02:26:38 PM »
Thank you, again for the information on keeping order.  It all makes sense.

Max and Rex had another scuffle this afternoon, this time it was regarding food dishes.  Not actual food, but because I was leaning over Max's dishes to get a treat holder from a storage bin I keep in Max's eating cubby hole.  Everyone was interested in what I was doing, Max was next to me and Rex was trying to get closer to me.  (And the dishes/storage bin.)  Max started it, but it didn't last very long and Rex backed down rather quickly. 

Mocha and Mugs stayed out of it, even though they were right next to the boys.  Kudos to them!   :thumbsup:

I kept the boys separated when I prepared everyone's dishes this morning.  No chance for a scuffle then. 

One thing about NILF- I don't see how that helps with the rough play between Rex and Mugs and her getting hurt. 
I can see how I would have to continue breaking up their playtime when it starts to escalate with a distraction, "enough" command and treat or separation, but not how the NILF is described to work. 
(I read the link you sent us, Bugsys Mom) 
Following that concept, do I have them do a trick for me and then let them play? That doesn't seem realistic!   ???

Wendy
Mocha, CGC 4/26/04  :sombrero:    Mugs 9/27/08  :devilish:    Axel 7/21/10  :puppy:
Max, CGC, TP 5/3/03 - 8/27/09  :angel:

Bugsys Mom

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Re: Resource Guarding
« Reply #55 on: January 21, 2009, 02:39:26 PM »
Basically play is a resource and you need to control it.  When you don't want them to play, don't let them.  ;)
Tell them 'enough' and separate them.  Boxers are really smart and they will catch on quick.  But, they will also always keep you on your toes and thinking.
Vicky

blynn03

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Re: Resource Guarding
« Reply #56 on: January 21, 2009, 02:49:31 PM »
Basically play is a resource and you need to control it.  When you don't want them to play, don't let them.  ;)

Exactly.  Since YOU are the owner of all resources, including play, YOU dictate the rules.  If they don't follow your rules, they don't ge the resources.  Basically....if they are playing too rough, you take away their privelege to play for awhile.

Also....I know I already said this and I don't want to sound like a nag....but in the other thread, myself and many others let you know that their rough play doesn't sound out of the ordinary.  If it were me, I'd only separate them when Mugs is OBVIOUSLY showing that she doesn't want to play anymore and she's trying to get away.  If she gets a little scab while she's still going after him....that's normal and it's just part of having 2 boxer pups.
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Re: Resource Guarding
« Reply #57 on: January 21, 2009, 04:17:07 PM »
Quote
Max and Rex had another scuffle this afternoon, this time it was regarding food dishes.  Not actual food, but because I was leaning over Max's dishes to get a treat holder from a storage bin I keep in Max's eating cubby hole.  Everyone was interested in what I was doing, Max was next to me and Rex was trying to get closer to me.  (And the dishes/storage bin.)  Max started it, but it didn't last very long and Rex backed down rather quickly.


This sounds like the incidents we would have with Lucy in the beginning. It's just the tension over the food/food bowls. I had to be careful to keep them away and keep order when I was doing anything food related. They would even fight over things I dropped on the floor, so they had to be kept out of the kitchen most of the time. Basically, any time you *think* there might be trouble, plan for it. They have issues over food, so plan ahead and prevent the problems before they occur.
Amber


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Re: Resource Guarding
« Reply #58 on: January 21, 2009, 06:13:34 PM »
"The possibility of food" is just as enticing to dogs as actual food. That's actually the thing most likely to set off my two, especially because it's less obvious than when food is present so we miss it ahead of time on rare occasions. My two can be kenneled together when we go away and don't have a problem hanging out together, but they have to separate them to eat and then they wait a couple minutes after they've taken the dishes away before they put them together again.

I'd take up the food dishes and not allow the dogs to crowd you when you are dealing with food or in areas of the house where food *may* be present.

I also would not give up on Rex yet. Show him that you are in charge with firm guidance and clear rules and he'll be a happier dog for it.
Julia
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BoxerWB

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Re: Resource Guarding
« Reply #59 on: January 21, 2009, 06:44:39 PM »
Neutering does cut down on male-to-male aggression - but food guarding and 'social' status aren't that - so I'd suspect you won't see a big difference.
Julia
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Dash 07/06
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In my heart: Xena 03/10/03 - 02/16/12