Question for group

[NewMoon Boxers]

So first off, wow it has been forever and a year since I have been on here. Just as a quick update, all is good, Sage is doing well and just finished her IABCA title, Bella the aussie is also doing well with just being a house dog now (you can tell she loves it ten times more than being in the ring), and we've added one to the pack... Sobie is an eight month yorkie that has definitely added of energy to our home but has been such a great addition. Also I am starting my second semester at High Point University! crazy to think I got Sage from Jennifer in what? my freshman year of high school?!

ANYWAYS!! let me get to the question that brought me back to you all hahahaha!

So there is a bitch that I have competed against in the classes with different dogs for almost 2 1/2yrs now. She is shown by an older gentleman who obviously loves showing her. To be honest, though she is a very cute little girl she is structurally not put together all that well. Her movement isn't great, she doesn't have the best angles and toes out in the rear. (Just to clarify she is not a boxer)

She has done well in the ring, I believe partially because she is so cute and you have an older fragile looking man on the end of the lead. So she has 14pts (now 16!)and 1 major... she needs one major to finish. Her owner has been showing her at local shows that don't pull majors very often (or haven't in the past couple of years) He has now shown her multiple times when there was no major and even if she did take wb and took opp over a specials bitch she still wouldn't be able to receive a major.

He has been confronted by handlers and other breeders who have asked how many points she has and if he is looking for shows with majors. He says that this is his hobby and he enjoys showing her (understood, we all wouldn't be showing if we didn't enjoy it). He has also been told that he is kind of taking points away from other dogs that could use the points. Today there was a very deserving bitch that took reserve (yes although its my personal option say this and not the judges I think several people would agree). He has told other exhibitors that he really doesn't care that he is winning points that another dog could use.

What do you do in a situation like this? Yes he paid the same entry as I did, and he deserves to take her in the ring because he entered. But what about everyone else who can't get past him because he continues to earn points he doesn't need? If I had a dog that needed the points I wouldn't show it, obviously sometimes we don't get the numbers right or a dog doesn't show up etc. there are plenty of reason why someone could have collected point the didn't need. I would also keep my dog in if it meant them helping to keep the major for others to potentially earn those points. Obviously we don't have much of a say for who wins because of what the judge decides to put up.

Any suggestions? He's be confronted. I don't think there is much anyone can do. I just think its sad that another exhibitor feels the need to do this when they know it won't benefit his dog.

[Rubidawg]

Hi Demi!! I actually thought about you and Sage the other day. Hard to believe you are in college now (and not far from me) and growing up. Time flies with all of us, that I'll probably be 90 and retired by sometime in the middle of next month. LOL I'm kidding. (I'm not ready for retirement yet) 

Anyway, this is just my perspective. I don't show in conformation, only obedience for now, but hope to get in the "other ring" someday. So, take it for what it's worth.....which isn't anything....

I can understand where he's coming from. He is showing his dog and enjoys it - something I admire him for doing....and obviously, she's winning. I see alot of "bitter breeders" out there that in situations like this, often say the dog doesn't deserve it, yet the dog is beating their dog in the ring. Somehow, she must be deserving of the wins, even if she doesn't need them. Yes, it is a waste of money, but to the breeders that have been showing against her, to say they are taking points away from dogs that need it....isn't it always about the better dog winning? I dunno. It doesn't make sense to me to keep showing when you need a major, as it's quite expensive. But he enjoys doing it and it's time with his dog, that someday....he won't have. Maybe it's not about winning for him, or getting that title? Sometimes, I think everyone focuses on the wrong thing...and I get caught up in it too with obedience. It's not always about winning or getting the title. But just about doing something that he can still physically do and that he enjoys doing with his dog.

I can see where it's a conflict for many others though. But that's where I teeter away from showing in conformation. It just seems like a silly game of everyone pointing fingers, or placing blame somewhere else if their dog isn't winning. Then you have the judges, the pro-handlers, and all the other mumbo-jumbo that goes along with it...it becomes very cut-throat. This is why I admire him for just doing what he loves to do. But I can't fault the guy and if his wins aren't deserving....would he continue to win, especially with different judges?

Tough call. And I understand where both sides are coming from. The dog show world in general faces all sorts of things like this, that you either have to have thick skin or have a better dog. In many cases...both. I don't think anything can be done about it...he has a right to show...and as long as he wants to, I'm sure he'll keep doing it. Maybe find shows where he isn't entered?

[Newcastle]

This is a common conflict in the conformation world. I, too, can see both sides. Personally, I would feel like it was poor sportsmanship for me to show a dog for singles that it doesn't need -- one of those 'unwritten rules' of etiquette like keeping a dog in to hold a major or letting people know ahead of time if you're going to break one. Most people, based on discussions on my all-breed lists, feel this way.

Then again, he did pay his entry like everyone else, and he has just as much right to show as anyone else. Those who feel there's nothing wrong with showing singled out dogs at singles shows, however, will invariably state that if you don't want him to keep winning, get a better dog. (And even with the sportsmanship thing, I wouldn't want to think my dog only won because another dog stepped aside. )

Since he's been confronted and obviously doesn't care about taking singles away from someone else, I might try to beat him at his own game. Find out where he's going to be and build him a major -- get her finished and hopefully he'll start showing her in Breed instead of the classes. (Technically he could still show in Open, but maybe he won't realize that! )

[NewMoon Boxers]

I can completely agree with what both of you have said. I can understand both sides. I'm not trying to down another owner handler, I think it's very important that we have people who are passionate about showing their animals. Of course this question comes out of frustration (who wouldn't be?). There are just so many different venues he could be participating in.

I think a very large reason for why she has so many points is due to the fact he showed her a lot as a puppy and picked up single points and he is still showing her at shows with single points. Also I think a lot of it has to do with judges not knowing the breed and being that he shows her at small shows where she is either in an open class or am bred I think most judges would put up an adult dog over a puppy if they didn't know the breed (Of course, this is just my personal opinion and others might not agree, I just think it goes back to the judging issues that have been a problem over the years)

Obviously there is nothing anyone can do but explain to him why they feel it is wring, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Personally, I feel that it is something I wouldn't do myself, and he did pay his entry just like everyone else.