Author Topic: CCL UPDATE 9-4  (Read 6387 times)

whitepupzoe

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CCL UPDATE 9-4
« on: June 18, 2013, 10:37:06 AM »
I think Abby torn her CCL. She's been limping off and on for about a month, but now it's getting worse.

Here's my problem, my husband said no more surgery, he is absolutely against having her operated on. Abby had a really rough time when she had her shoulder operated on 2 years ago, problem with pain meds, etc. so ever since then he's been against any type of surgery.

How can I convince him...Abby is 7 years old, I can't let her limp for the next 5 years  ( :fingerscrossed: ) ...and rest and restriction is not working for her anymore.

Advice?
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 08:36:20 AM by whitepupzoe »
Kristin ~ Mom to Abby & George


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RocketBoxer

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Re: CCL and Husband Problem
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2013, 11:09:50 AM »
Well, first off what have you tried so far? How much rest/crate restriction has she had? Is she on any supplements?
Kerry
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whitepupzoe

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Re: CCL and Husband Problem
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2013, 11:15:02 AM »
She's on Dasaquin and has been for over a year. The vet said she has a combination of arthritis and a possible injury to her CCL. My husband won't even agree to take her to see a specialist to get a definite diagnosis.

We have just been restricting her activity, no playing, no jumping, no walks, no couch. Is there something else I should be doing for her or giving her?
Kristin ~ Mom to Abby & George


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Re: CCL and Husband Problem
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2013, 11:48:21 AM »
Hmm... Have you already tried the "we learned from last time, we'll know what to avoid this time" angle with him?  We know our boys are big mushes about their pups, so maybe the general vet needs to make it clear how it is hurting her? Abby not fully using that leg will cause problems for other parts of her body as she adjusts how she does things to compensate.

It seems like everyone I know who has tried conservative management had ended up needing the surgery anyways - it only takes the dog getting in one "illegal" romp to undo all your careful restrictions.

I know it is tough, once they get their minds set, but I'm sure you can help him see reason.  :thumbsup:
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whitepupzoe

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Re: CCL and Husband Problem
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2013, 12:02:35 PM »
I think another trip to the vet might help him change his mind...he's always more receptive to what she says then me.  ::)
Kristin ~ Mom to Abby & George


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Re: CCL and Husband Problem
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2013, 02:49:37 PM »
Hope he agrees to whatever will help her..I'll keep my fingers crossed
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whitepupzoe

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Re: CCL and Husband Problem
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2013, 03:25:03 PM »
We are going back to the vet tonight, I am hoping she can pursuade him into at least taking her to a specialist for evaluation. I will keep you posted!
Kristin ~ Mom to Abby & George


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Boxermom,K

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Re: CCL and Husband Problem
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2013, 04:38:24 PM »
If he is completely against surgery then tell him you guys have to look into other options such as a brace to help stabilize the knee/leg for 6-8 weeks to give it time to heal.

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Rubidawg

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Re: CCL and Husband Problem
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2013, 05:18:46 PM »
When we decided to finally do Rubi's, she was in bad shape. Screaming. Writhing. Unable to stand. She'd hobble (nearly falling over) to go hide in the yard, she was in so much pain. Wet herself. I've never seen her that miserable. for years before, we had tried therapy. We had tried weeks, upon weeks, upon weeks of crate rest. We had tried massages, with daily ice packs. Eventually, she woke up in so much pain, we were scared we couldn't help her. It had just gotten too painful for her and we had no choice but to put her through surgery. She was 4yo, had been on supplements since she was diagnosed with HD at 6mos. She had more rimadyl, tramadol, aspirin, then I'd like to think about. Eventually, you have to weigh out what is quality for her? Is it a few more weeks of crating? Is it upping her pain meds? Is it worth trying physical therapy for a little while to see if that helps? Is it putting her through surgery and all of the aftercare?

Rubi went through bouts of going 3-legged, to back to normal, running and playing and chasing Grady for a long time. It was when the pain was so unbearable, she woke up screaming and falling over that we had looked into autoimmune diseases and other possibilities before we ended up with TPLO. She came out the day after surgery, walking on all fours, bright-eyed and wagging her tail. But.....it is a tough surgery and it's quite painful for them afterwards, which is why they send home "the patch" but even still....Rubi was very uncomfortable for many weeks. The first few days were extremely hard (on her and on us). Then add the exercises you had to do daily, walking her on leash every hour to get her out to potty using a towel sling until she was able to atleast toe-touch the leg enough to walk out herself (still on leash). Her recovery took about 8 weeks, then it was weeks of water therapy after that. So, just things to know/consider and ask about, so you know what you would be getting into.

While I can appreciate the surgery, I do try to go conservative as much as possible. Rubi can no longer sit because of all of the arthritis that has built up in her knee both pre and post surgery. So that is a downfall, otherwise - she does fairly well keeping up with Bauer on her own, despite Shawn and I hiding our eyes when we think she's going to blow it out again! There are pros and cons and a big risk is blowing out the OTHER knee - but that can happen with or without surgery.

My advice would be, take him along with you to the vet. Talk to them about seeing a specialist, but be forwarned...the specialist will want to do surgery - they just seem to go right towards that route, unless you find a specialist that also considers the pros and cons with conservative management as well. It's up to both of you to ask about all of the options and weigh them out evenly. I was against it at first, even when they told us she needed it - I felt there was something else going on based on all of the other tests - but was glad to see her up, walking, and happy again.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2013, 05:23:17 PM by Rubidawg »
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Missy/Precious mom

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Re: CCL and Husband Problem
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2013, 05:42:42 PM »
Fingers crossed
Joyce

Christina

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Re: CCL and Husband Problem
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2013, 06:49:25 PM »
Star has bad arthritis in both knees,  but he had that prior to surgery because it took  over a year to get the prior diagnosis.   My reasoning with Star  was that I absolutely couldn't put him through the restrictions of conservative management and then turn around and have to do surgery anyway.  He was also almost 2 at the time.

 The thing with conservative management is that you're going to restrict her for 6-8 weeks,  then a slow return to normal activity,  and then there's no guarantee that she'll be 100%.  The entire time her knee is unstable and there's a greater possibility of arthritis forming.

 There are a lot of specialists that will do the traditional surgery on bigger,  active dogs.  As long as you are very careful in the beginning,  it has a good success rate.  You're regular vet should even be able to do it.

I know several people that have had dogs do well with just tramadol post op, I don't know what pain meds she had trouble with,  but I know Star had a horrible time  with the fentanyl  patch,  so the surgeon didn't use it the second time.  They're using different things like gabapentin now  for post op pain too.
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Re: CCL and Husband Problem
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2013, 07:28:21 PM »
I tried the CM approach with Mic when he had a particle tear. He was almost healed and then he tore his acl completely. He did one stupid burst of speed or tried to jump to fast (i did not see the reinjury) and a year of rehab and crating when done the drain. He had tplo in April and is doing great. I do not think I realized how much pain he was in till after he had surgery and started to heal. He is back to being a really goofy guy instead of being so quite.

I think that the CM approach works best for older dogs that are not as active. The ones who do not like to jump a lot or have sudden bursts of speed. First you need to find out if it is a full tear or just a particle. I do not think that it will heal with just crating if is a complete tear.

Rubidawg

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Re: CCL and Husband Problem
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2013, 09:51:29 PM »
Any updates, Kris? How did the appt go?
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whitepupzoe

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Re: CCL and Husband Problem
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2013, 02:06:56 PM »
Oops sorry, should have updated.  :blush:

My vet said that yes, there is arthritis in the knee and a injury to the CCL. She said 99% of the time the injury will not heal with just resting, etc.

Al is still not ready to have surgery done tho. I know if we go to a specialist they will say yes she needs surgery, but I think we need to know a definite diagnosis.  Will the speciliast be able to tell if it is a partial or complete tear?
Kristin ~ Mom to Abby & George


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Rubidawg

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Re: CCL and Husband Problem
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2013, 03:06:19 PM »
Definitely go to the specialist. Even if you do go with surgery, I would not trust a regular vet to perform it.

They can't tell if it's a partial tear or a complete tear til they really get in there. They will perform the drawer test and depending on how much pain and movement in the joint there is, that can still be inconclusive. They thought Rubi's was a complete tear, but ended up only being a partial when they went in. It was all the arthritis causing a good part of the issue with immobility.
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