Author Topic: Studding to Pets?  (Read 2770 times)

SaharaNight Boxers

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Studding to Pets?
« on: January 21, 2012, 05:56:16 PM »
Last year we were at Conformation class with Duke and a lady asked us if she could use him at stud. We exchanged information and waited till her girl was in heat. When she was I was gone so it didn't happen (thank goodness we almost blew any credibility we would've had at that point as we ventured into the dog show world. He was 14 months!) during this period I really started looking at health testing. I didn't really know what it was fully until then. The bitch owner didn't even know what a brucellosis test was! That was what really got me looking at health testing.My dog going sterile or dead possibly because of her dog?!) so anyway after all that she breeds to her daughters boxer...so in the end I wrote this long email about how if she health tests and got her evaluated I would consider her. In the end she never writes back either...Anyway it's been about a year and I've been thinking more about it since Duke has to be health tested soon and was wondering of anyone ever had this happen or if you would ever consider breeding to a pet?

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Re: Studding to Pets?
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2012, 07:35:30 PM »
Well I wouldn't even consider breeding Duke, but that's me, I don't breed. However, if I was a breeder I would not just breed to a pet and I would not use my stud for breeding unless the dog is health tested, evaluated for conformation and temperament. Breeding before this is done is just irresponsible.
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Rubidawg

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Re: Studding to Pets?
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2012, 07:55:21 PM »
Part of responsible breeding is breeding to better the breed. I highly doubt that breeding to a pet (health tested or not), is a step towards bettering the breed. Why have a pet attached to Duke's line if you are breeding to a pet? To me, that's being irresponsible. Health testing is only one small part of being a responsible breeder.

Why does this woman want to breed?
Why do you want to breed?
What benefits would this breeding be to helping to better the breed as a whole?

This is just an extremely short list of questions you should be asking yourself and anyone you stud your dog out to, before eve getting down to whether or not the bitch has been health tested.
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SaharaNight Boxers

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Re: Studding to Pets?
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2012, 08:31:00 PM »
Sorry I should've been more specific. In that case I said no before he would have. I mean that if the bitch was health tested and not a bad dog what would you say? Personally, I still wouldn't breed to her but what would you say?

SaharaNight Boxers

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Re: Studding to Pets?
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2012, 08:32:18 PM »
And thank you! Definitely thinking more on that.

aquagirl900

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Re: Studding to Pets?
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2012, 08:37:30 PM »
<----not a breeder

Wouldn't it be better to breed a health tested, good conformation dog to a "pet" dog rather than to another pet dog?

SaharaNight Boxers

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Re: Studding to Pets?
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2012, 09:33:00 PM »
<----not a breeder

Wouldn't it be better to breed a health tested, good conformation dog to a "pet" dog rather than to another pet dog?

That's the one thing that gets me...although Duke's name or any stud ends up on those pups...this is what happens in his pedigree and it eats away at me sometimes when I think about it. That's Why i wouldnt probably. There's another dog I found that's breeding to whatever and has all Arrina Talisman lines. It makes me wonder what some breeders would think if they saw where their dogs ended up.

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Re: Studding to Pets?
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2012, 08:16:09 AM »
You are focusing on Duke's pedigree and this confuses me a lot.  If you wanted a "well bred" dog from a responsible breeder, why did you buy from an Amish breeder without those credentials? many breeder, responsible ones BTW, have pups that are not perfect and place them in homes.  These dogs will have very good pedigrees and yet they are not epitomizing what the breed should be and because of that these pups are placed in pet homes, and some without s/n contracts. This does not mean they should be bred, or for that matter shown, but are pets, like my rescued pups.

So how could it be possible that your pup has 1/2 of his pedigree that looks good and the other is an unknown?  Possibly because one of these pet placed pups WAS bred and to a pup that has no responsible pedigree behind the dog, so  to speak.  All dogs have a pedigree (dam & sire background) but not all dogs have one worth breeding to, trust me...all mine have papers that are not worth the paper printed they are on!  I suspect your Amish breeder some how was able to get to breed with, possibly because she was asked or asked an unsuspecting person, like you were asked.

Not be to nasty, but if you want a well bred dog (on both sides of the pedigree), next time look to a responsible breeder, not the Amish.


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RocketBoxer

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Re: Studding to Pets?
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2012, 10:16:10 AM »
You have to decide what is important to you....

I do have friends who will allow their studs to be used by pet people - and they say, it is far better that the pet people are using their studs who have nice conformation and are health tested - as opposed to another pet. They don't have any requirements - like the bitch be health tested.

Now, I don't really agree with that logic because I would prefer that the "pet people" didn't breed at all. But here are some things to think about -
1. Are you willing to let your boy be used with a bitch who has not been health tested? What are your minimum requirements? I think that mine - at the very least - would be a holter and an echo. How would you feel if you allowed the breeding to take place to an untested bitch and the puppies started dropping dead at 2 years of age from heart issues? What if both her parents died very young with cancer - would you okay the breeding - and honestly would the pet breeder even be aware of such (typically they know nothing about the dogs behind their dogs)?
2. Are you willing to let your boy be used with a bitch who has terrible conformation or temperament?  One thing to remember is that any puppies are a reflection of your stud - and the stud always gets blamed for any issues. Personally I would be very picky - at least on a young unproven stud.
3. Another consideration is the contract that the bitch owners sells her puppies on - is there one, and shouldn't that be a consideration? Does the breeder require that pet puppies are spayed/neutered - does she agree to take back puppies if the owner can't keep them anymore? Do you want your boys puppies ending up in a rescue - if the breeder is not willing to take the puppies back - are you willing?
4. You name - and you mentioned this too - but especially since you are new and just starting out in the show world - what sort of impression do you want to make? Just consider this - if someone contacted me and wanted to buy a show puppy from me and they already had a boy who wasnt finished and wasnt health tested who they were allowing to be bred to every bitch that came his way - for purely pet litters - there is no way that I would sell that person a show puppy.

« Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 10:55:24 AM by RocketBoxer »
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Re: Studding to Pets?
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2012, 11:12:31 AM »
In my opinion, you have a very "nice" dog, and you enjoy showing him. Why be so concerned about breeding him? There are many responsible breeders out there who are doing extensive research, extensive health testing, and limited breeding of only the "best to the best". I would prefer to leave the breeding to them. There are way too many "nice" dogs out there, who end up in shelters and rescues, and that breaks my heart.  :(


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Re: Studding to Pets?
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2012, 12:06:12 PM »
There are way too many "nice" dogs out there, who end up in shelters and rescues, and that breaks my heart.  :(
EXACTLY
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SaharaNight Boxers

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Re: Studding to Pets?
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2012, 12:15:20 PM »
I'm not really concerned about breeding Duke to anything right now. I just asked this question as an ethics thing. We're definitely waiting until the perfect bitch comes along hopefully. I didn't know responsible breeding and health testing at the point when we bought Duke. Should I have, yes, but I didn't.  I had no idea he would end up in Conformation. I had no idea I was ever going to have to think about this kind of stuff with him, but sometimes one thing leads into another and you end up where you are.

And the only reason I ever thought about breeding to this bitch is that the breeder wanted to try to get a show quality dog to start out with. She wanted to try to start something, but wasn't going to health test as far as I know so I said no in the end. You should've seen the email I sent. It had links on health testing, evaluating, conformation, etc.

Rubidawg

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Re: Studding to Pets?
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2012, 12:24:31 PM »
Breeding, and doing it right, takes alot of thought and education on both sides (dam and sire). One thing I would keep in mind, is if you are thinking of studding Duke, take a good look at his full pedigree. If you feel half of his pedigree is worth it...what about the other half? What about the pedigree of any "pet owner' you stud your dog out to?

I feel longevity and health that carries throughout the pedigree is just as heavily weighted on as health testing, conformation and breeding to better the breed. I think any responsible breeder would think twice to breeding in a situation like one you are asking about. Responsible breeders put more interest in their lines and what they produce than to allow to breed to any owner. You wondered how you ended up with a BYB dog (in another thread), this is how.

If you breed, breed to better the breed. Study the pedigrees of any bitch you stud Duke out to. Make sure that the pedigree is something you'd want to ADD to....not try to "help" improve, especially when you don't know most of what Duke has.

Again, I'd think any responsible breeder would turn away from this type of situation. However, there are breeders who sell one of their "prospects" to pet homes unsure of how they will turn up, and with a clause that they may breed that dog/bitch in th future - if all health testing comes up right AND comformationally, the dog comes out right. This may not happen often, but technically this would be a "pet" co-owned by the breeder and the breeder has rights to breed to what he/she will fit with. Rare. but I've seen it happen. And even then...there is ALOT more thought put into it - along with years of research.

I think Kerry (Rocketboxers) put it all very nicely and gave some great things to think about.
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