Square vs. Visually Square

[SaharaNight Boxers]

I have a male that's 25 by 25. He's square, but he doesn't look like it. The only thing I've found in the standard is that the Boxer is a squarely built dog. And on the ABC visual standard (I believe) they have a picture of a square dog, again it doesn't look like a square. What do you believe the standard calls for? Square (withers to ground = point of chest to tail) or visually square?

Thanks,
SaharaNight Boxers

[BurningRiver]

I don't believe them to be mutually exclusive... I've yet to see a dog that is square that doesn't appear to be square, if that makes sense. I guess maybe I don't understand the question correctly?

[SaharaNight Boxers]

Duke is square. 25 by 25. Withers to ground point of chest to tail and diagonally. But if you look at him he depart appear to be square. Maybe it's just that I'm looking at his neck and head also and that's getting in the way, but he doesn't seem visually square to me.

[BurningRiver]

It's from the top of the withers (highest point) to the ground and from the chest to where the "shelf behind the dog" ends (not the end of the tail). Maybe I just need to see a picture?

[Newcastle]

I thought I'd answered this already, turns out I did on another forum.

I think the standard is pretty specific about it:

The body in profile is square in that a horizontal line from the front of the forechest to the rear projection of the upper thigh should equal the length of a vertical line dropped from the top of the withers to the ground.

That said, sometimes a square dog won't look square based on other things like a long loin, depth of chest below or above the elbows, etc.

[BurningRiver]

Jen touches on a good point--long loins and short briskets and/or deep briskets and overly short loins can distort a dog's profile... That said, these dogs are still square... Albeit with other issues.

[SaharaNight Boxers]

I'll upload a picture soon. I think I'm looking more at his head and neck to instead of just his body. His depth of chest is right on to the half an inch, so I know for sure that isn't the problem.

[SaharaNight Boxers]

I hope these work!

[SaharaNight Boxers]

I have no idea how these ended up upside down so I'll just post links.

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g464/SaharaNightBoxers/DukeWinPhoto.jpg

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g464/SaharaNightBoxers/Dukestacked.jpg

Sorry about that, I thought I had figured it out!