Author Topic: Had to try it (shock collar)  (Read 7757 times)

gobroberts

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Had to try it (shock collar)
« on: September 28, 2011, 09:06:59 AM »
Let me start by saying I am a proponent of positive reinforcement as the primary element of training.  Stuiy is generally a good boy (15 month old rescue) and is ridiculously smart and loyal.  He has bounced around and I believe he is starting to understand this is his permanent family (FINALLY).  With all of that said, after 2 weeks and a 2 hour OB session at our house, continued issues with the cat, not getting in his crate in the morning for my fiancee, continued badgering of the 12 year old lab/chow old lady, tearing up the entire house when left to his own devices for 30 minutes in the morning while showering...I reluctantly invested in a shock collar.

Stuiy is a new man.  I am convinced that he understood the commands before.  sit, stay, lay down, down etc...  he just had too much going through his head to care about what I was trying to correct.  No amount of treats, or praise was enough.  I believe I can count on one hand the number of times I have had to "stimulate" the collar, since the collar gives off several beeps as a reminder.  He now listens, sits almost immediately, stays (even when I am out of site for a short period of time) and waits for my release most of the time from stay.  This is after two days.  From what I can gather, he also is manageable with my fiancee in the mornings while she is getting ready for work.

I was afraid that we would have to return him to the foster home as I felt I could handle a slower rising learning curve, but my fiancee had almost had it.  I am convinced at this point, that the collar, if used correctly is a valid tool in training.

I expect that the collar will be temporary, as when he has had it off while it recharges, he still listens well and he doesn't seem to relate the corrections or even the beeps to me in any way.  I am interested in your feedback.
Stuiy - Rescued 9/11/2011

Christina

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Re: Had to try it (shock collar)
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2011, 09:31:38 AM »
When used properly, it can be a good training utensil.  A lot depends on the dog as well though. A shy, timid dog would not respond well at all, while it sounds like your boy is doing well.
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Re: Had to try it (shock collar)
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2011, 10:06:00 AM »
Not a fan but do agree that it can help with stubborn dogs.  My brother used one with his lab, and actually only had to show the remote for the dog to respond, not activating it.  I still used the positive reinforcement with mine regardless...that seems to have worked with me.  That and repetition, sometimes constant repetition for hours...but eventually they get what I want!
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Patti

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Re: Had to try it (shock collar)
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2011, 10:45:56 AM »
I'm sure he is a new man. I wouldn't step out of line if I had electrical current running into my neck. Sounds like your boy needs lots of exercise. He's got some energy to burn up.
Patti & Otis (8/18/2006)


DoubleTrouble

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Re: Had to try it (shock collar)
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2011, 11:15:32 AM »
Let me start by saying I am a proponent of positive reinforcement as the primary element of training.  ...I reluctantly invested in a shock collar.

Stuiy is a new man. 
I am interested in your feedback.

No...you're probably not...
Deb, Jaimee and Joker
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Rubidawg

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Re: Had to try it (shock collar)
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2011, 11:23:00 AM »
It sounds like typical, bratty behavior for a 15 month old pup. Something that patience, consistency and reinforcing with positive training methods would have taken care of. Two weeks of training and giving up, isn't going to help him learn. I'm not a fan of shock collars and know quite a few people who have used them. But I've found you get more "bees with honey than you do with vinegar" and from what you are describing this could all be easily corrected without going the shock collar route. Leaving him alone for 30 mins - well, what do you expect a pup to do? Chasing the cat - teach him, rather than shock him into fear. Not getting in the crate - that is something that you train and takes time.

Sorry, I think you jumped the gun with going the shock collar route and with patience, consistency, and positive reinforcement - you would have seen progress. Two weeks isn't enough time to train - especially a 15mo old pup that has "lost his marbles" (lol) anyway. It's a fun age, but you can't expect them to learn overnight.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2011, 11:25:45 AM by Rubidawg »
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Re: Had to try it (shock collar)
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2011, 11:41:00 AM »
Exactly, Patti & Dawn, exactly!!!
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WildBeanerz

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Re: Had to try it (shock collar)
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2011, 02:28:59 PM »
I have to agree with the general opinion here. I don't support using a shock collar. I think that if you have a dog you should have the time and energy to put into proper training. Proper training IMO is positive reinforcement.

Sorry...I know how frustrated you are with him but I got my girl in January at 15 months after having spent @20 hrs per day in her crate at her previous home she had no idea what to do in a house. I had her practically glued to my body for at least 2 months to prevent accidents, getting in trash and on counters, etc etc. She is now... 8 months later she is a doll. She has learned sit, stay (mostly), down, crawl, and her newest is roll over. It just takes time and patience. I was honestly at the point of tears wondering why on earth had I brought such a horrible dog into my home within just a few days of bringing her home but OMG I wouldnt' give her up for the world now.

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BranwenBoxers

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Re: Had to try it (shock collar)
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2011, 07:02:04 PM »
While I am not a fan of shock collars , I do believe they have there place as a training tool .  Like if your dog likes to chase cars , tractors , horses ect .  But for the normal this like sit , laydown , stay going in the kennel , then no I don't think the shock collar is a good idea only because at some point your dog will understand that the collar is off or not working and they may choose to not listen to you .   

Do you feed your dog in the kennel ?  If not then that would be a good time to teach your pup that going in the kennel is FUN FUN FUN , and when they go in they may get something good to eat or chew .   When I had my last litter , and I had 3 pups still living with us .  They would fly to the kennel when I said " kennel" lol because they knew that I was going to give them something good .   

I also would recemend putting your boy in the kennel when you cannot watch him 100% of the time , or tie him to you so he can't make a mess .    You need to treat him as if he was an 8 week old pup , start from scratch .  Yes it will take time , but I bet in no time he will start to listen .   

Millie my 3 year old bitch takes for ever to learn any new tricks , even now she will look at me like I grew another head  ::) .  Not that she does not understand what I am asking ( tricks that she already knows )  , but she is trying to see if I really mean it .   


Sometimes training takes time  ,  but once they figure out what you want they will be more then happy to do what you ask  , well most of the time lol . 
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Re: Had to try it (shock collar)
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2011, 09:08:21 PM »
I have to say that I have a shock collar for Peanut. But it's for the invisible fence WHICH is used in combination with the regular fence. I used it because Peanut jumped over the fence to chase horses and ATVs.
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Patti

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Re: Had to try it (shock collar)
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2011, 09:19:30 PM »
Totally different, T. It's for her safety, not as a training tool when other options are still open.
Patti & Otis (8/18/2006)


gobroberts

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Re: Had to try it (shock collar)
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2011, 09:11:00 AM »
OK, I wasn't looking for validation, just your thoughts and I appreciate even those with a holier than thou attitude.  Stuiy is a rescue, that was on the verge of having to go back into "rotation", not because I couldn't handle a longer training period, but because my fiancee was on edge and uncomfortable with him alone.  Easy choice for me, shorten his training timeline, or put him back in a situation where he was bouncing from place to place again.

Let me be clear, Stuiy has never been "stimulated" by the collar as a general training tool to "sit" and "stay" as it might have come across in my post.  The only time he has "felt" the collar is out side without a leash as a means to keep him from tearing off into a crowded street OR when he is absolutely running away from my fiancee because he knows it is "crate" time in the morning.  The beep on the collar is the only thing that has been used to re-direct his attention and has made him a different, happier part of a much happier household.

After being chained outside for days at a time, suffering a sunburn that caused a scar down his back about 18 inches long, absolutely starved for both food and attention with his original owner, then being part of a 5 dog foster home and NEVER being inquired about, I can assure you that his permanent family is a MUCH better situation and short term use of the collar to ensure our collective integration is hard for both of us, but a needed effort.  Thanks for your continued comments!
Stuiy - Rescued 9/11/2011

DoubleTrouble

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Re: Had to try it (shock collar)
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2011, 09:21:24 AM »
OK, I wasn't looking for validation, just your thoughts and I appreciate even those with a holier than thou attitude. 

 ::)
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Rubidawg

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Re: Had to try it (shock collar)
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2011, 09:26:37 AM »
Well you got our thoughts....not our validation. And no one has come in here with a "hollier than thou" attitude. You just don't like our "thoughts," so you are getting defensive. We can all understand and sympathise with what your boy has been through. There are SEVERAL members on here that are very passionate and are volunteers for boxer rescue. They've seen it all, and we've all heard the stories.

Bottomline, two weeks isn't enough time to get down any training, especially for a 15mo old boxer. Heck, he's not even adjusted to a new home yet - that can take MONTHS! And you're giving him barely two weeks?

And to give him 2 weeks and say he was going to go back into "rotation" isn't fair....considering what he's been through, you would think you would allow him more time than that. Heck, I'd give him the world considering all he's been through...and first I'd start with a bit more patience.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2011, 09:28:16 AM by Rubidawg »
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Patti

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Re: Had to try it (shock collar)
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2011, 09:45:26 AM »
Honestly? Holier than thou? Pffft. I was being nice. I said it sounds like your boy needs exercise. I could have said "you seem lazy and like to take the easy way out of training. How could you deliberately hurt a dog that has already suffered so much in the past?" THAT, my dear, would have been holier than thou. But it's not what I said and it's not necessarily how I feel.

If you come onto a forum and ask for feedback you're gonna get it whether you like it or not. Your explaination on how you're using the collar could have helped in the first post as well ;)
Patti & Otis (8/18/2006)