Author Topic: Champion Title  (Read 3581 times)

Vickie

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Champion Title
« on: March 06, 2011, 01:13:01 PM »
How important is the "Ch" title, from the breeding stand point. ??? To me, as long as a dog/bitch has had all health tests, with good results, good blood lines, and is within the stand, it shouldn't matter if a dog/bitch is a Champion or not. It only proves that he/she has proven themselves in the ring. I know...9 out of 10 times the bitch is not finished...but what about the dog.
How important IS the Ch title for the dog? I would hate to have to chose my breeding stock/program based only on the Ch title?



 
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BranwenBoxers

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Re: Champion Title
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2011, 01:43:52 PM »
Its not high on my list , I am more concerned about Health and structure first .  My first health tested litter I bred my girl to Harley ( Faerdorn Dust Buster )  .    He was not a CH at the time and that didn't bother me at all .  My goal was to improve on pigment , Structure and substance . I was luck to get all three and more  in my litter to different degrees .     

I do not like the idea of breeding to the number one dog , just think how many people will take their bitches to him .    I also like the idea of bringing in pedigrees from other countries as long as they will complament my girl and improve on her faults .   
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RocketBoxer

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Re: Champion Title
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2011, 11:01:21 AM »
How important IS the Ch title for the dog?

I think that each of us has to decide how important a title is........and I think a lot of that depends on what your goals are.

However, for THE DOG I do think it is important IF you want people to use him at stud. If you don't care about that and just plan to use him in your own breeding program - and you have other priorities, then so be it.

So my opinion is that it is important for a DOG to get it's CH, if you want to have him used at stud - unless there is something unusual about the dog that would make finishing harder (import, plain, natural ears etc).

Sure I would breed to a NON-CH dog, but probably only one who had a solid reason for not being finished (i.e. import, plain, natural ears etc) - I would really question why a USA bred regular flashy dog was not finished. But that is just me.......
« Last Edit: March 07, 2011, 11:09:29 AM by RocketBoxer »
Kerry
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Newcastle

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Re: Champion Title
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2011, 12:00:55 PM »
Good points, Kerry.

I don't think the dog has to be a Champion. Harley wasn't when I bred to him, either; Hugo wasn't when his first litter was born; Hunter probably won't be when his first litter (if he ever gets the job done ;) ) is born. But I was confident those dogs could finish, and Harley and Hugo did (and I'm sure Hunter will, he "just" needs his majors).

Then again, I'm sure Potter would never finish, but I don't think that's anything much to do with his quality and more to do with his being UK, plain, uncropped, and owner-handled. I'll be getting him out some this summer, because I'd like to get a point on him just to say "yes, he can win" ;) but that's just a personal thing. I'll still allow him to be bred, because I think in a different circumstance (or with enough $$ to hire a pro who can travel to all the right judges) he'd do well. (That's where kennel blindness can creep in, though, and why I like to get at least one point on everyone! That means at least one other person agrees the dog is worth breeding, conformation-wise. Of course, I get lots of opinions from other breeders and exhibitors whether my dog wins or not, and those are generally more meaningful to me anyway.)
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Hanna Banana

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Re: Champion Title
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2011, 09:37:11 AM »
Quote
How important IS the Ch title for the dog

Being new, and to me, this (the title) is my goal, at times while it may not be easy, and it may get expensive, I set out to have to goal and don't have any intensions on giving up.

Down the road, as I learn and maybe start a breeding program and create my line, I am aware that to get to my next set of goals in creating a pedigree there maybe times where a title is not of importance but more important the need of what a particular dog may have that I need and want in my line.   

And I agree with Kerry with regards to there maybe certain characteristic of a dog that may make him harder to finish, however I personally would like to see that if such a said dog is good enough to be breed to, that he is out there here and there to be seen, even knowing that he may never win or finish.

So I do applaud those who know they may never finish their dog, but do get them out there in the ring to be seen esp if they have characteristics that is needed in this breed.
Heather  - Mom to Hanna Banana & Kash

Vickie

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Re: Champion Title
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2011, 04:53:19 PM »

Being new, and to me, this (the title) is my goal, at times while it may not be easy, and it may get expensive, I set out to have to goal and don't have any intensions on giving up.

I'm sure everyones goal is to finish their dogs..I know it is mine as well. But for some unforeseen reason some dogs can not finish for whatever reason, besides not having the quality and able to win. I for one do not have the money to hire a pro handler. To me, as long as the dog has the qualities, able to win, proper health tests, not having the Ch before his name doesn't make him any less of a dog or less quality ..JMO! Then again I am a newbie, with a later start than most.
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Re: Champion Title
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2011, 07:01:41 PM »
I got a long way to go as well.   :veryangry:

My dog is a bit different so she may have a harder time, if she even finishes, but I will die trying!    Heck, my puppy prob will finish before my bitch.   But its the competitive aspect that get me and sucks me in its a sickness!!

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RocketBoxer

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Re: Champion Title
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2011, 08:27:56 AM »
I for one do not have the money to hire a pro handler.

FWIW - I know several breeders who have a similiar mindset - they get out and show their dogs a lot, and if they finish great, but if not so be it. They owner handler -  and say that either their dogs are good enough to finish on their own or they aren't.
I respect that! But they make a concerted effort and show the dogs a lot, so it is not like they are making a token effort and then giving up. Some finish and some don't.
Kerry
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Soleil

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Re: Champion Title
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2011, 01:31:46 PM »
I for one do not have the money to hire a pro handler.

FWIW - I know several breeders who have a similiar mindset - they get out and show their dogs a lot, and if they finish great, but if not so be it. They owner handler -  and say that either their dogs are good enough to finish on their own or they aren't.
I respect that! But they make a concerted effort and show the dogs a lot, so it is not like they are making a token effort and then giving up. Some finish and some don't.

My only 2 breedings have been to CH's.. and one a top dog in his time, who has since become the flavor of the year..  :brood:  However, when I made my decisions, I based my breedings on what i thought the dogs could bring to my bitch, and we got improvements on both breedings we were looking for.  That said, when i first started out, i was always told that you finish your dog first, then breed, and you breed champions to champions.  Bitches were ok to not be champions. 

Being 8yrs in now, my mindset is different.  A championship title is nice, however I am less impressed by the dogs winning these days more than ever.  If that's what a champion is, than sorry, i don't want it.  (of course this is not every dog that finishes).  For me, I do enjoy the time in the ring w/ my dog and will attempt (whenever i have a dog i'm serious about competing in the AKC conformation ring w/ again) get his/her singles all O/H'd, and possibly even majors.  This was the plan w/ Bru, however his then owners had some other issues that we were trying to work through, so we attempted to speed through his CH, which we were able to. 

For Trucker, my goal for his first and foremost is to be a working dog.  I hope to have his BH and ZTP done by year's end, and his SchH1 sometime next year.  If he can be AKC pointed, that would be great, but to me, it's not high on my list of priorities for him.  He'll be shown sparingly here and there, and if he continues to mature the way he is, the plan is to bring him out at maturity (4-5yrs old) and  then show him as an adult to see what he can do.  By then he'll hopefully be 3-titled, so I won't have to worry about the training styles being completely different.  I won't mind training him to be a statue.. lol.  If people want to think less of him because he's not a champion, that is perfectly fine by me.   I still think he has a lot to offer both structurally, and temperament-wise, and when i decided to purchase him, it was going to be for my own future breeding program, not to ever be a big stud dog. 

Any future dogs i have will worked, and shown in conformation either by myself, or a few trusted friends if they are to go on the road at all.  I've hired handlers, i've paid money, i've had dogs finished, and to me at this point, the conformation shows imo just aren't my end all be all judge of a good dog.
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Re: Champion Title
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2011, 03:07:48 PM »
I think that you should find the dog or bitch that complaints yours. In temperament, health and comfermation. That dog may not have a title to its name, but if you found a the dog that you think can improve what you have then you should go for it. Plus I agree with Kat. I have been less then impressed with what I have seen finshing. It seems to me that if you have enough money to send your dog out with the right handler you can finish them. No matter how bad they are.