Author Topic: breeder's responsibility for congenital problems in puppy  (Read 9396 times)

nance

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breeder's responsibility for congenital problems in puppy
« on: November 04, 2010, 11:56:39 PM »
We've had Molly a week , an 8wk. old who , my vet discovered has some serious health issues.  She has a grade 3 heart murmur, is shedding profusely, and has not gained weight since we brought her home, although her appetite is voracious.  The breeder refuses  to take Molly back and refund her purchase price.  Claims we haven't giver her any real health issues to be worried about. She has offered us another puppy, but is taking a hiatus and puppies will not be available until late next year. Our children are becoming more and more attached to Molly every day...So are we! She suggested we take Molly to a cardiologist, at our expense.  Sadly, we can't afford that and don't feel it is our responsibility. Although we never received a health certificate, the breeder claims she has been seen by a vet, yet refuses to give us the name so that our vet can confer with him/her.  Just looking for a refund.  A year is along to to be holding our money and waiting for a puppy. Breeder claims she backs her puppies 110%...that is until there is a problem, I guess.  Breeder claims she lives paycheck to paycheck.  Although, I feel bad, she chose to breed boxers.  We have another boxer at home, and lost our 'good old girl', Bella, also a boxer,last winter.  We were looking to add to our family.  Any suggestions?   Thanks!

CedarBoxers

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Re: breeder's responsibility for congenital problems in puppy
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2010, 01:06:52 AM »
well this is sad. unfortunetly you went to a back yard breeder. Did you ask or see any health testing on either parents? Is there any type of health guarantee (in writing or even in an email)There is really not much you can do unless you live in a state that has a puppy lemon law.. you could give the dog back for free im sure.. but you'd have to take legal matters to get your money. Although the thought of you taking legal action against her might spur her to give you back her money. Those poor dogs :(

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Re: breeder's responsibility for congenital problems in puppy
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2010, 06:48:02 AM »
I am very sorry...seems that your breeder was less than stellar. Check your laws to see what recourse you have...some states as mentioned do provide a little help.

Do you mind me asking who your breeder was?
Claire-Mom to Ollie, Zoe, Phoebe, Willie & Snookie

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BoxerWB

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Re: breeder's responsibility for congenital problems in puppy
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2010, 07:26:46 AM »
I have to agree that your breeder is what we would call a "backyard breeder" - someone who breeds for money and not the betterment of the breed.  While I know it's difficult with children involved and quite heartbreaking,  I would suggest that you do what you can with Molly, because it sounds like giving her back would be just as heartbreaking (I suspect someone living paycheck to paycheck will not provide her with medical care).

Perhaps Molly beats the odds - but if she doesn't, I would suggest letting us help you find a GOOD breeder who would not allow this sort of situation to happen.  Our breeders, or the breeders that our breeder-members would recommend, do genetic health screenings on the parents, trying their absolute best to weed out health problems at the root (rather than only checking puppies, which catches the problem too late).  When their pups do have a health problem, they are honest with the puppy buyers and would only give the pup to a home that was prepared to deal with the issues. 

Now, this may mean waiting a year for a puppy OR traveling a fair distance - good breeders don't always have puppies available - but if you want to minimize the risk of your children's hearts being broken, you really need to go to someone who's doing things the right way.  If you can't wait and you rush into buying with another "BYB" then you are taking a risk of getting another "heartbreaker" pup.
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Theresa

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Re: breeder's responsibility for congenital problems in puppy
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2010, 08:38:13 AM »
I'm sorry but there doesn't appear to be much you can do unless your state has a puppy lemon law. 

If you decide to keep Molly, ask around here in the Genetic Health section about ways to boost heart health and minimize the strain.  I am sure that amongst our members someone can provide you with some advice.
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Re: breeder's responsibility for congenital problems in puppy
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2010, 08:51:31 AM »
As others have said . What do you have in writing as to the guarantee ? Do you have one?
Many breeders ( good and bad) will not refund any of the purchase price without documented proof of the health problem . And even then many only will replace the puppy and not give $$ back.

Even with puppy lemon laws you may have to prove that Molly does have a health problem by bringing her to a cardiologist . Just a regular vet or you saying she does have aheart problem may not hold up in court .

A regular vet can catch basic health problems , but to really have an idea of what type of heart problem you may be looking at is to have a cardiologist look at Molly ( I know you said you can't ) and have it documented .
That is the only way to tell if She does have a heart problem . Boxers tend to have murmurs and most puppy murmurs go away on their own . Your vet said it was a grade 3 but since he is not a cardiologist he may not have the grading of the murmur right .
 A grade 1 or 2 murmur can be innocent and not necessarily cause and health problems and Molly could live a long life .

But again unless you have her screened by a cardiologist there is no way to know .
Missi
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nance

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Re: breeder's responsibility for congenital problems in puppy
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2010, 10:27:58 AM »
Thank you all for commenting.  Ohio has no puppy lemon laws(maybe that's something I need to address) Molly was purchased from Tornados Kennel, in Columbus Ohio.  We feel between a rock and a hard place because we too, thought about what will happen to Molly if we give her back.  We are quite concerned about her profuse shedding and lack of weight gain also.  Have switched her food(the one the breeder had her on) and found an additive to boost her calories and vitamin intake.  Digestion appears fine.  Molly still weighs under 5 lbs.  I know, poor judgment on our part combined with poor judgment on the breeder's part.  Still don't understand why the breeder won't hook us up with her vet, unless she's hiding something.

Theresa

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Re: breeder's responsibility for congenital problems in puppy
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2010, 10:35:32 AM »
The shedding might be from poor food quality and the lack of weight gain...well...a well bred puppy at 8 weeks shouldnt weigh more than 12 lbs or so and shouldnt gain a lot in a week.  She might also have internal parasites like coccidia or something
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Peanut (classic brindle female) born 2/15/2009
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Re: breeder's responsibility for congenital problems in puppy
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2010, 10:40:55 AM »
The profuse shedding COULD be because of malnutrition.  I would up her intake of good food, get her off grains, maybe raw or homecooked and give her some fish oil. thismay help her gain too.

The breeder seems at best a backyard breeder...the terminology on the site would leave me to believe that, but what is done is done so now I would just chalk this up as with doing business with an irresponsible breeder and move forward. Their site is pretty implicit that NO REFUND will be given, so if it were me, I would concentrate on loving the pup you have and giving it the very best possible life. Good luck
Claire-Mom to Ollie, Zoe, Phoebe, Willie & Snookie

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Bruins_Boxer

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Re: breeder's responsibility for congenital problems in puppy
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2010, 11:12:39 AM »
Under 5 pounds at 8 weeks ? 

I would feed her several small meals per day . Her stomach may not be big enough to eat much at once .
Is she eating the kibble fine or is she very picky ?

And I agree , the shedding could be from poor nutrition . Maybe giving her some vit C & E . It will help to boost her immune system and may help with the shedding .
Missi
Edy - Bruin's Espresso by Stephlyn , CGC    5-2-2006
Remy - Bruin's One Step Closer    7-27-2010

Gone but never forgotten Mocha , Titan , Charlotte .

Theresa

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Re: breeder's responsibility for congenital problems in puppy
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2010, 11:36:50 AM »
HOly crap...5# at 8 weeks is teeny.  Ditto Missi...feed her small meals several times a day (I would say around 4-5 meals per day). 

Also, check out the following link for good kibbles:
http://www.boxercrazy.org/forum/kibble-feeding/2009-whole-dog-journal-approved-foods/

Edit- You might also want to try adding some canned wet food to her kibble, as that will up the calorie intake
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 11:38:51 AM by Theresa »
Mom to:
Beasley (flashy fawn male) born 11/15/2005
Peanut (classic brindle female) born 2/15/2009
Evan (two legged brunette male) born 4/20/2011

Boxermom,K

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Re: breeder's responsibility for congenital problems in puppy
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2010, 11:45:26 AM »
Since the breeder is refusing to give the name of the vet who she claims saw the puppy, perhaps she never really took the puppy in to see the vet to begin with. I am so sorry you are having this experience, I agree with others- perhaps do the best you can for Molly. Keep in mind also that a grade 3 heart murmur in a puppy so young does not always mean there  is a big problem- I have known a couple of pups that have outgrown the murmurs by 1 year of age.
The profuse shedding is very likely due to inadequate nutrition. What food have you switched her to and what food was she on? I agree with trying to feed her several small meals a day. Also be sure to take in a stool sample to your vet to check for parasites- they can cause poor weight gain and shedding.
Unfortunately unless you have something in writing regarding a health guarantee then there is little you can do other than to use this as a learning experience and help to educate others about irresponsible breeders.

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Re: breeder's responsibility for congenital problems in puppy
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2010, 02:32:23 PM »
Sorry that you fell into the BYB trap. No sense in going over that now though. I think that puppy is yours and you will need to do the best you can for her since her "breeder" isn't going to.

I would definitely get her on a quality food and feed small amounts often so that her little tummy can get as much nutrition as possible in a day.

Please don't feel that anyone is upset with you for where you got her from. We just want what is best for all the boxers and it angers us the way some "breeders" are just out there for money and don't care about the puppies that they have created. We are here to help you with any advice that you could need.

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Re: breeder's responsibility for congenital problems in puppy
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2010, 03:02:20 PM »
Sorry that you fell into the BYB trap. No sense in going over that now though. I think that puppy is yours and you will need to do the best you can for her since her "breeder" isn't going to.

I would definitely get her on a quality food and feed small amounts often so that her little tummy can get as much nutrition as possible in a day.

Please don't feel that anyone is upset with you for where you got her from. We just want what is best for all the boxers and it angers us the way some "breeders" are just out there for money and don't care about the puppies that they have created. We are here to help you with any advice that you could need.
Very well put and great advise. :thumbsup:
Joyce

nance

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Re: breeder's responsibility for congenital problems in puppy
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2010, 03:18:19 PM »
Thank you all for your input.  Tearfully we are giving in to the breeder's offer for another puppy...maybe in the Spring.  With three kids, one just starting in braces, and losing a dog in the past year, we are afraid to take the risk both emotionally and financially.  I will try to put an image of Molly here and have already signed the petition to get a puppy lemon law for the state of Ohio.  Crummy way to teach our kids a lesson about people, huh?  And she's got a baby on the way!

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?opll2003

If you know anyone in Ohio, please pass this link along.