Author Topic: Breeders' Expectations of Buyers  (Read 3767 times)

Newcastle

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Breeders' Expectations of Buyers
« on: October 20, 2010, 01:59:21 PM »
We talk a lot here about what buyers should expect from breeders - health testing, screening, contracts, lifetime support, etc. I'm curious to hear what you think is reasonable for breeders to expect from buyers (post-sale).

Most people seem to agree that a surgical sterilization requirement for non-breeding dogs is reasonable, but what about requiring an ear crop?

Many breeders have vaccination, parasite prevention, and dietary requirements. Are those fair and reasonable? What if they're tied to the health warranty?

Some breeders require the buyer to keep in contact with them throughout the dog's life. How often is reasonable? Should this also be tied to the health warranty?

What other things do breeders you know expect from their puppy buyers? What should they require that maybe they don't?

I wasn't really thinking of co-ownerships or breedings/puppies back arrangements, but those would certainly be relevant (and can get extremely unreasonable!).

(To be clear - this is not prompted by any of my own puppy buyers! :) It sprang from a conversation I had with someone who bought a dog with what I felt were some unreasonable strings attached.)
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Re: Breeders' Expectations of Buyers
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2010, 02:19:00 PM »
Quote
Many breeders have vaccination, parasite prevention, and dietary requirements. Are those fair and reasonable? What if they're tied to the health warranty?


I am of two minds regarding this.  I understand that breeders want to see their dogs in the best possible health....but there can be extenuating circumstances which warrent "bending" of these requirements.  Take our discussions of Peanut for example.  Yyou prefer to limit parasite prevention but upon discussion with us, and our explaination about how bad our tick problem is, you were okay with the usage of tick preventative. 

Quote
Some breeders require the buyer to keep in contact with them throughout the dog's life. How often is reasonable? Should this also be tied to the health warranty?


I think regular contact is reasonable.  As a breeder you want to know how your dog's are fareing.  Are they treated well.  Also, as an owner, I want to know how the other dogs in the litter, and the sire/dam are doing to know if there are any health problems to look out for.  I don't think contact at minimum 1-2 times a year.  More often if possible

« Last Edit: October 20, 2010, 02:30:05 PM by Theresa »
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Re: Breeders' Expectations of Buyers
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2010, 02:23:45 PM »
i was just thinking this same thing.. thanks for posting Jen!
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Re: Breeders' Expectations of Buyers
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2010, 08:39:02 AM »
I know I breed but I have also bought 2 of the 3 dogs I currently have - and from my perspective I am opposed to MOST strings. My preference is for a very simple contract, yet a good relationship with the person that I bought the puppy from.

I think it is reasonable for breeders to expect that the puppy buyers keep in contact - even if it is only once a year - and let them know how the dog is doing, send pictures etc.
I also think - that if you purchased a show dog - and that if both buyer and breeder think that the puppy has matured into a dog that should win - that it is reasonable for the breeder to expect that you will make a concerted effort to get the dog finished.

However, I am pretty much opposed to anything else. As most of you know I am not a fan of health guarentees - even though I did offer one with my last litter but it was very, very simple - but I think if a breeder starts putting all sorts of conditions on it then they may as well not offer it.

I think that things should be more about relationship and the breeder educating the buyer as to the best things to do (re diet, vaccinations) and for example,  if a buyer is not open to feeding a quality food then not selling them a puppy to begin with.

I do know breeders that I think have sold puppies with completely unreasonable requirements - and personally I think that they are taking advantage of the buyer, who are mostly newbies. But this is mostly on show puppies, and mostly related to breeding the dog and getting puppies back. But I also don't understand people who agree to contracts like this.......

So I think that a lot of breeders expect way too much......
« Last Edit: October 21, 2010, 08:42:25 AM by RocketBoxer »
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Re: Breeders' Expectations of Buyers
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2010, 09:07:06 AM »
Quote
Most people seem to agree that a surgical sterilization requirement for non-breeding dogs is reasonable, but what about requiring an ear crop?

If I were buying a pet, a breeder requiring an ear crop would probably be a deal breaker for me.  I personally don't see the point in cropping a pet dog (I don't care if others do, it's just my personal preference), and I don't want to put my dog through a cosmetic operation if there isn't some purpose or goal in mind, plus I don't want to have to deal with all the after care.  Obviously if I were buying a show pup, that would be different.

(And also I'd be looking for a breeder with a more "liberal" sterilization policy to begin with.)


Quote
Many breeders have vaccination, parasite prevention, and dietary requirements. Are those fair and reasonable? What if they're tied to the health warranty?

I think it depends on how strict these policies are.  I'd be looking for a breeder where we could have a discussion about everything and maybe come up with a compromise in areas where we might disagree (i.e. the scenario T mentioned about parasite prevention). 

If I came across a breeder who said "You have to do XX vaccinations, use XX parasite preventative and feed XX food, or else," that would be a deal breaker for me, especially if I felt it was too many vax, too much preventative, or crappy food.  I'm willing to commit to giving the best care I can to my dogs, but if I disagree with the breeder from the get-go about what the definition of "best care" is, I don't think that would make for a good relationship.


Quote
Some breeders require the buyer to keep in contact with them throughout the dog's life. How often is reasonable? Should this also be tied to the health warranty?

I wouldn't mind keeping in contact with the breeder.  Obviously I'm not in contact with Bella's breeder but I have a little contact with Griff's.  I try to send pics to both his breeder and his sire's breeder on/around his birthday.  If I were to get a pup from one of the breeders on this board, I'd probably try to maintain even more dialogue since I know most of you better and we have an easy venue to use to stay in contact.  I'm not sure how I feel about this being tied to a health warranty.



I guess overall I think these requirements would ensure the breeder found a buyer who really agrees with them on every aspect of care; however, I also think some of these have the potential to eliminate a lot of good buyers too if the breeder isn't willing to compromise.  Now if all of these were talking points that were used to screen buyers, I wouldn't have a problem with that, but I'd probably steer clear of a breeder who had these strict requirements and wasn't open to discussion.
*Brandy*

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Re: Breeders' Expectations of Buyers
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2010, 09:23:48 AM »
Kerry, I like how you think!

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Re: Breeders' Expectations of Buyers
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2010, 09:29:16 AM »
I think each home requires an amount of flexibility from the breeder.  Because each home and each dog is different, the breeder owes that to the home!  Working with a home instead of against is always best, however, there are some circumstances where the breeder asks too much, as does the home!!!  
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Re: Breeders' Expectations of Buyers
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2010, 12:32:15 PM »
Though I too am technically a breeder, both of mine where bought from a breeder so I thought I would answer from both sides. In most cases I am opposed to any strings.

Requiring ear cropping to me is crazy unless it is a show puppy that had fly away ears that the breeder knew would never lay right and ruin showing chances.  Other than that I can't imagine a reason why anyone would require a surgery on a puppy, especially if it just bought as a pet.

As an owner I hope that my own research and knowledge on vaccinations, parasite prevention, and diet would be enough for the breeder I am purchasing a puppy from. I would expect help in that area though, as the breeder has knowledge of the lines, allergies to vaccines, foods, ect that could effect those choices. I still drive Kti crazy with questions on diet and supplements. As a breeder, these things weighed in heavy on placing a puppy, but I tried to find people with similar philosophies or at least open minds, though I never required anything from them.

Contact is a must! On both sides!!  :yes: Okay Sue and Kti get tired of photos and emails from me I am sure.  ::) The people I chose for my puppies were the one's that kept in the most contact, asked the most questions, and I felt built the better relationship with us from the start. So far they have all stayed in great contact and sent tons of photos over the last 11 months. Tying contact to health guarantee seems silly, but then I think heath guarantees are silly too, and I guess that is another discussion all together.  ;)

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Re: Breeders' Expectations of Buyers
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2010, 10:51:37 PM »
I'm definitely more interested in having a good relationship and fewer formal agreements. If I trust that the breeder has done their due diligence with health testing and will support me if something comes up, I don't need a health guarantee. If they trust me to take care of their pup, they don't need something in writing about how I'll sterilize, vaccinate, or feed.

I wouldn't go with a breeder that required an ear crop - I was actually nervous 'cause one of the lines I liked, I only ever met dogs that were cropped. But when I asked the breeder about it, she said it was totally voluntary. (Her dogs do look nice with crops, so I can see why the buyers like them that way!)

I wouldn't want a health warranty and I also wouldn't want hard and fast requirements on vaccinations, diet, etc.  I would definitely want to have a conversation and make sure that I had similar inclinations as my breeder, simply because I'd be more comfortable working with a breeder who was of a like mind.

I think once per year contact is reasonable and anytime anything significant happened (illness, earning a title, moving, etc).  I'd prefer a breeder I like well enough to share photos with and chat with more frequently.

One thing I haven't heard of much but would find reasonable is a breeder having some expectation that the puppy would attend at least basic puppy manners classes. Of course, I'm hoping to find an obed/agility prospect, in that particular case there might be an expectation of bringing the dog to competition-level classes, which is what I'd want in the first place.  :thumbsup:

As with most things, I think it's all about moderation - reasonable expectations on both sides, something both people can be comfortable with.
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Re: Breeders' Expectations of Buyers
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2010, 07:01:31 AM »
Unfortunately I am a contract freak, and I am sure that is because of my background with my mentor... but I like everything in writing.... But, I am a flexible person.  If there is a concern, I do my best to make it right and help them out....  I am a busy person, and that does sometimes make me hard to reach, but I will set aside time for every one of my homes!!!! 
 With the 09 litter, Denise and I did EVERYTHING we could to make sure these babies were healthy.  2 of the pet puppies having pre-screening echo's One of them was cropped prior to and had a normal echo,  except for his Bicuspid Aortic valve (which the Semi-lunar valve is supposed to be tri-cuspid) he was put on a no breeding term... Good prognosis, no breeding... which he is much loved and that is what matters!
I get scared to death though (and this is probably my bad trait as a breeder) that someone is trying to take advantage of my puppies...  SO, I do get a little defensive about certain subjects!  My biggest thing is getting a puppy a good home, and if I have complete say over it, I am not passed giving one away to get a really good home.... That is what matters the most, a loving caring home for all babies!
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Re: Breeders' Expectations of Buyers
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2010, 10:01:58 AM »
 I discussed with my puppy buyers about vacinating , feeding , training , crating , cropping , spay/neuter , training ,etc...
We discussed them all and we came to an agreement on what we both felt should be done or not done with their puppy .

Some will not neuter at all , others at late ages . I let them make the final decision as to whether they would use flea/tick & heartworm meds and what vaccinations appropriate to where they live . But they know the risks and we discussed minimal vaccinations and titering after the initial puppy shots .

We discuss food and raw , I offered to help with raw if that is what they decide to feed , but could understand if they feed a high quality kibble .

I let the buyer decide as to crop or not but would have my vet do it . I stress the amount of work to get the ears to stand so they know what they are getting into with posting .

I ask that all puppies take puppy K classes and take obed classes as needed throuout the dogs life .

I also aks for them to keep in contact , at least a few times a year . opefully with lots of pictures .

What I like to see in a puppy buyer is someone who is on the same page as I am with most things , but is open and willing to listen to my suggestions and discuss them with me on any small issues we may not agree on 100%.
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Re: Breeders' Expectations of Buyers
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2010, 10:34:59 PM »
All I can add to this conversation is, what a joy it is to own a puppy from a wonderful breeder who I can honestly call friend!  Hogan is my first ever 'quality' puppy from a known breeder, so this is all new to me!  I love knowing I can turn to Kerry should I EVER have any concerns or questions regarding Hogan's well being.  I also love knowing Kerry trusts me to make the best decisions I'm capable of for the puppy she has entrusted to my care. 
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