Author Topic: "rare blue-gray Boxers"  (Read 27008 times)

BoxerIsisDreamComeTrue

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Re: "rare blue-gray Boxers"
« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2010, 10:33:18 PM »
I just thought of something. My gramma had beagles the brown, white & black color a brother and sister neither fixed. Well when they where around 8-9 yo they got together and the resulting puppies where blue the vet at the time said that it was due to inbreeding so do you all think that maybe the same thing could have happened with the Boxers?

I know next to nothing about genetics but I just happened to think about that when I saw the pics of the blue puppy.


blynn03

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Re: "rare blue-gray Boxers"
« Reply #31 on: August 05, 2010, 08:06:02 AM »
From what I can tell in this thread - that couldn't happen with boxers since they don't carry a gene for black color (which beagles obviously do) and they don't carry a gene for dilution (don't know if beagles do or not).
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Re: "rare blue-gray Boxers"
« Reply #32 on: August 05, 2010, 10:39:07 AM »
Beagle do carry the dilution gene which causes black to be blue.

It's not a matter of "inbreeding" cause the blue color - inbreeding does not create genes out of thin air. ;) You could get the exact same results from breeding two unrelated-for-10-generations black tri-colors together, if both carried the dilution gene.
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blynn03

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Re: "rare blue-gray Boxers"
« Reply #33 on: August 05, 2010, 10:58:17 AM »
It's not a matter of "inbreeding" cause the blue color - inbreeding does not create genes out of thin air. ;) You could get the exact same results from breeding two unrelated-for-10-generations black tri-colors together, if both carried the dilution gene.

Gotta love the genetics expertise of your average veterinarian!   :laugh4:
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Re: "rare blue-gray Boxers"
« Reply #34 on: August 05, 2010, 11:33:17 AM »
LOL! And really it wouldn't bother me - I don't expect vets to be experts on everything - if they didn't make statements as if they were experts.  (Like the whole "this Boxer is defective, he has an underbite" thing. ::) )
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WildBeanerz

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Re: "rare blue-gray Boxers"
« Reply #35 on: August 05, 2010, 11:36:14 AM »
And their whole lack of knowledge on nutrition!!  :smash:

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DoubleTrouble

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Re: "rare blue-gray Boxers"
« Reply #36 on: August 05, 2010, 11:42:35 AM »
Well...I did a quick search and found some REAL blue boxers...Sears, Target both carry them and LL Bean even has flannel blue boxers...if I get an urge for  blue boxers...I'll stick with them!!  :laugh4:
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WildBeanerz

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Re: "rare blue-gray Boxers"
« Reply #37 on: August 05, 2010, 11:43:42 AM »
Well...I did a quick search and found some REAL blue boxers...Sears, Target both carry them and LL Bean even has flannel blue boxers...if I get an urge for  blue boxers...I'll stick with them!!  :laugh4:

:hysterical:

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Rubidawg

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Re: "rare blue-gray Boxers"
« Reply #38 on: August 05, 2010, 11:44:32 AM »
OK - another BYB story, except this is from my college days. My roommate in college got a boxer - Marley. Best gal in the world and who made Shawn and I fall in love with the breed. Bryan (my roommate) wanted to breed Marley and ended up that one of my restaurant managers had a male boxer they were looking to breed. Both were gorgeous boxers (obviously not show dogs or came from responsible breeders, but very much had the boxer look about them). They were both plain brindles and actually looked like the same dog.

When Marley's pups were born - 2 of them looked gray, which I guess people are calling "blue." Koho, Shawn's first boxer, was the runt of this litter and was an obvious brindle at the time. But from what I remember, the 2 gray pups - one looked brindle (gray w/ darker gray/black stripes) and the other looked "solid/fawnish" (gray solid thru the coat, but flecks of darker colored fur, like black).

So, since I know both parents are boxers and we have one of the pups from this litter still and she's very much a boxer (and 11 years old).....is it possible that these grays come up from something WAY back being mixed in the breed? And if the boxer was created by dogs like the bullenbeiser, etc - is it possible that these breeds could carry the "blue" gene and is popping back up thru the generations. Even if the boxer does not "carry a gene" - is it still possible that a breed that was mixed to create the boxer, did actually carry that gene and through the generations, it comes back up (like a mutation of some sort)? I wish I knew what these pups look like now - if their fur got darker as they got older, turned more fawn, etc.

We know Marley was not bred with anything else, so it's not like a pit or bulldog or something go to her. Only her and the male from my co-worker. So, is it really something further back in the pedigree (like Marley may have been mixed with another breed in her pedigree)....or something from WAY back into the pedigree (like the first dogs mixed together to create the boxer).
« Last Edit: August 05, 2010, 11:47:51 AM by Rubidawg »
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Re: "rare blue-gray Boxers"
« Reply #39 on: August 05, 2010, 11:49:47 AM »
What gets me is how can a vet not know where the blue comes from? First thing they say is "well maybe it has health problems....lets run tests!" "Maybe it needs to be on meds." "lets put it on a special diet"  :idea3: Maybe cause its mixed with another breed!

Well...I did a quick search and found some REAL blue boxers...Sears, Target both carry them and LL Bean even has flannel blue boxers...if I get an urge for  blue boxers...I'll stick with them!!  :laugh4:

 :lmao: :lmao:

That was a GOOD one. Love ya Deb!
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Re: "rare blue-gray Boxers"
« Reply #40 on: August 05, 2010, 11:50:29 AM »
Sometimes darker fawn puppies look grey when they're young, Alisha posted about this once. The odds against a dilution gene being carried hidden for 180 years and then suddenly popping up are astronomical - especially when you consider the numerous bottlenecks the Boxer breed has gone through, and the intense line- and inbreeding that happened in the early days of the breed. (The "Big 4" were constantly bred to their own and each others' daughters, granddaughters, nieces, etc.)
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Rubidawg

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Re: "rare blue-gray Boxers"
« Reply #41 on: August 05, 2010, 11:53:16 AM »
Cool. Thanks Jen. :thumbsup: I figured it was a long shot and definitely the odds would be extreme, but that's why I wonder what they look like now (if they are still alive). They did seem to turn more fawnish as they got to 9/10 weeks....but they still very much looked a lil gray compared to the other coats.
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Boxermom,K

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Re: "rare blue-gray Boxers"
« Reply #42 on: August 05, 2010, 12:12:17 PM »
Dilute colors can "pop up" after several generations- however this can only happen if they are there to begin with in both parents. Since boxers do not carry these genetic naturally then when a blue or other color such as all black comes up then there has to have been some other breed added in somewhere down the line. Since the dog breed DNA tests have become available I have come across several people in Billings who have "AKC registered boxers" that tested them just because and found that they had a fair amount of pit in them despite the fact that they physically looked like boxers. So dogs such as these when bred to others could easily be culprits to introducing un-natural colors to so called pure boxers.

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blynn03

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Re: "rare blue-gray Boxers"
« Reply #43 on: August 05, 2010, 12:19:37 PM »
LOL! And really it wouldn't bother me - I don't expect vets to be experts on everything - if they didn't make statements as if they were experts.  (Like the whole "this Boxer is defective, he has an underbite" thing. ::) )

Exactly.  It's one thing not to know about a subject - it's entirely different to not know about it but still present "facts" about which you have no knowledge!  ::)


Sometimes darker fawn puppies look grey when they're young, Alisha posted about this once. The odds against a dilution gene being carried hidden for 180 years and then suddenly popping up are astronomical - especially when you consider the numerous bottlenecks the Boxer breed has gone through, and the intense line- and inbreeding that happened in the early days of the breed. (The "Big 4" were constantly bred to their own and each others' daughters, granddaughters, nieces, etc.)

So that being said, it means that one (or both?) of the parents of the litter Dawn was talking about likely had another breed in their lines?  I'm assuming since both of the parents were of normal coloring, that the dilution gene is a recessive gene?  So does that mean both parents would have had to carry it recessively for it to present itself in the puppies?  (And I'm just assuming the puppies truly were "blue" since Dawn mentioned one of the brindles being blue as well, not just fawns like you mentioned.)
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blynn03

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Re: "rare blue-gray Boxers"
« Reply #44 on: August 05, 2010, 12:20:45 PM »
Dilute colors can "pop up" after several generations- however this can only happen if they are there to begin with in both parents. Since boxers do not carry these genetic naturally then when a blue or other color such as all black comes up then there has to have been some other breed added in somewhere down the line. Since the dog breed DNA tests have become available I have come across several people in Billings who have "AKC registered boxers" that tested them just because and found that they had a fair amount of pit in them despite the fact that they physically looked like boxers. So dogs such as these when bred to others could easily be culprits to introducing un-natural colors to so called pure boxers.

Well that kind of answers the question I just asked even though you posted first...thanks!
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