Author Topic: What those breeders say about "black" Boxers  (Read 1187 times)

JugglingWolves

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What those breeders say about "black" Boxers
« on: April 18, 2007, 06:50:10 PM »
So I just want some confirmation about the black boxer "phenomena".

I've been reading a lot of (mostly BYB) breeders' websites and most of them have a story about how black boxers are as old as the breed itself. They all refer to an account by a girl in the early 1900's (i'm not sure who). All that I was able to gather from this passage was that the first "black boxer" was bred by one gentleman who admitted to an accidental Schnauzer impregnation. Since that time, he apparently let the "black boxer" die out. This woman had since attempted to find a "black boxer" and found one close, but it wasn't close enough... she she painted the dog with black shoe polish. Her mistake was seen on her dress after a show. I couldn't follow anything beyond that showed a real black boxer.

I think I'm more curious about the history than anything. I don't know if I read the account closely enough to trace out a real understanding. But I've seen show homes that do all the necessary health testing show very black boxers. Yes, there was a sparse fawn bit showing through on the reputable dogs... but why would they advertise their dogs as black?

Also, I haven't been able to find a direct breeder of import Boxers claim to have a "black Boxer" despite a very dark pup. Is this not a world wide, but rather an American, phenomenon?



Any real information about the "black boxer" myth would be awesome. I'm just trying to understand!
« Last Edit: April 18, 2007, 06:51:41 PM by JugglingWolves »

Carolyn

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Re: What those breeders say about "black" Boxers
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2007, 06:55:28 PM »
The black coat gene/marker is not present in the true (aka well bred) boxers and has never been in it at all.

The white coat gene/marker is also not present in boxers, what you see is called a marking pattern not a coloring.

The only true coloring of a boxer is FAWN.....then you have the marking patterns like brindling, and flash. White boxers are actually fawn boxers with an ultra amount of flash. Just like brindle boxers are actual fawn boxers with a brindle marking pattern. ;) 

So in order to get a true "black" boxer (and not a really dark reverse brindle) you would HAVE to mix in a dog that carries the black gene....like where you mentioned about the schnauzer. But then the puppies are not boxers but boxer mixes ;)
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Renee

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Re: What those breeders say about "black" Boxers
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2007, 07:43:39 PM »
That woman was Frau Friederun Stockmann - probably the most influential person in the history of the breed.  And she talks about it in My Life with Boxers (one of the most important pieces of literature on the history of the breed IMO).










Newcastle

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Re: What those breeders say about "black" Boxers
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2007, 07:56:50 PM »
Quote
I've been reading a lot of (mostly BYB) breeders' websites and most of them have a story about how black boxers are as old as the breed itself. They all refer to an account by a girl in the early 1900's (i'm not sure who).

That was Friederun von Miram-Stockmann, widely considered the "mother of the breed". :)  What those breeders neglect to mention is that Frau Stockmann notes - several times - that the black coloring was eliminated from the breed shortly after it first appeared.

Quote
All that I was able to gather from this passage was that the first "black boxer" was bred by one gentleman who admitted to an accidental Schnauzer impregnation. Since that time, he apparently let the "black boxer" die out.

Right - the color came from a Schnauzer cross, and was never present in the purebred population.  The German Boxer Club did not approve of the color, and made it a disqualification in the mid-1920s.  Since these dogs were then unable to be bred (and had been unable to be shown prior to the DQ), the color quickly disappeared from the breed.  (So the question, which none of the 'black Boxer' breeders I've asked have ever answered, is from what breed(s) did the color come in this latest fad?)

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This woman had since attempted to find a "black boxer" and found one close, but it wasn't close enough... she she painted the dog with black shoe polish. Her mistake was seen on her dress after a show. I couldn't follow anything beyond that showed a real black boxer.

It really was a black dog, but the color was not as deep as she wanted on his flanks, so she used the shoe polish on him. ;)

Quote
But I've seen show homes that do all the necessary health testing show very black boxers. Yes, there was a sparse fawn bit showing through on the reputable dogs... but why would they advertise their dogs as black?

Yikes, do they?  The responsible breeders I know who have very dark dogs either  advertise them as "reverse brindle" or, sometimes, "black brindle".  I haven't seen one that actually advertises them as solid black.

Quote
Also, I haven't been able to find a direct breeder of import Boxers claim to have a "black Boxer" despite a very dark pup. Is this not a world wide, but rather an American, phenomenon?

It is probably mostly an American thing, because a) we don't have strict rules regarding which dogs can be bred and b) we have a society that is very keen to own the "rare" and "special" - hence the popularity of "designer dogs". 
« Last Edit: April 18, 2007, 08:48:19 PM by Newcastle »
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