Author Topic: PA Banning cropped dogs  (Read 1885 times)

fairview Boxers

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Re: PA Banning cropped dogs
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2009, 09:22:42 AM »
I agree with Renee, cropping isn't a deal to be taken lightly :no:
I personally have only cropped one dog (had it done to be clear), and haven't done it since, but I am not against it.  I feel it is a personal choice, and we should have the right to make that choice...  I however think that some people (breeders included) take advantage of this by doing some proceedures themselves. 
It sickens me to think there are people out there that are sterilizing their own dogs, and cropping their ears.  Physically cutting anything off takes a lot of responsibility.  The tails have to be treated with iodine three times a day, image what the ears or a spay incision would need.  That is scary!
Kat Medved
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Eilene

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Re: PA Banning cropped dogs
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2009, 09:26:01 AM »
Just one more way the goverment is getting involved..I personally love the cropped look and think this bill is wrong..
Eilene
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M.vazquez

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Re: PA Banning cropped dogs
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2009, 09:29:37 AM »
i think thats a good thing i think everyone should get the ears cropped by a PROFESSIONAL
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BurningRiver

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Re: PA Banning cropped dogs
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2009, 09:34:29 AM »
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and while a lay person may have experience and the knack for nice crops, that doesn't mean they should do the proceedure

Why not?

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Although, I'm surprised that it's legal anywhere to crop ears if you are not a Vet, and personally, I find it disgusting.

But farmers can castrate pigs, cows, horses and sheep, and that's okay? It happens more often times than not.

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How does this breeder get anesthesia without a DR. license?

I have no idea, and quite frankly, I don't care. I see no problem with her performing the procedure as, again, she's got the chops to back it up.

After all of the butcher jobs we've all seen come out of MANY licensed, practicing vet offices, I can't believe the subject is even arguable.

Please don't get me wrong. I take my dogs to a vet to have all of their procedures completed, but what I'm trying to illustrate here is that this is yet one more law that is far overreaching and creates no "one size fits all" solution to anything.
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fairview Boxers

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Re: PA Banning cropped dogs
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2009, 09:48:59 AM »
While I agree, this law isn't being put in place to protect anything, it is there for a controlling manner, and it needs to be pushed out.... 

First and foremost,
Brining River wrote:  "But farmers can castrate pigs, cows, horses and sheep, and that's okay? It happens more often times than not."
Livestock differs greatly from a companion animal.  I have been owned by horses for 20 years, and was raised on a beef cattle farm, however, I don't have any in my home amongst my children and part of my family.  My horses are a big part of my life, but they are not my Boxers......  So I see a big difference in that.  Not to mention the fact that most of the time, when a farmer CASTRATES (and they ONLY castrate they don't do hysterectomies), it is for an animal that will be slaughtered (excepting horses).  ALSO, many farmers BAND their animals, which is far different from CUTTING an appendage off.... It may be discomforting at times (the area falls "asleep"), but it isn't CUT OFF.... bleeding, and open.  Also, in my personal experiences of livestock (cattle, pigs) they apply iodine to keep out infection, AND there is NO anesthesia used..... 

Breeders performing crops, and sterlilizations are taking a pet, something that lays on your couch with you and your kids, or that understands almost every word you say to it, and cutting off pieces of its body....  What about pre-anesthesic bloodwork to be sure there isn't something wrong prior to being put under anesthesia????  Would you go under anesthesia without bloodwork?  I doubt it!

I dont' want to seem that I am sticking up for this legislation, because I do not, however; I absolutely do not want to stick up for a breeder that crops or sterilizes their own dogs.  That is just dangerous!  Especially when using the anesthesia... That isn't a drug to mess around with....
We had a puppy (back in 2002), coming in for a neuter and puppy tooth extraction.  The owners didn't opt for the pre-anesthesia bloodwork (this is why it became mandatory at GVS), the puppy died, he had a liver shunt, which would have shown a problem upon bloodwork, but since the owners didn't realize that, they lost their beloved pet.  Something that in many cases you may not be able to tell upon exam, or until a few months or years has passed, but when anethesia comes to play, it can't be filtered out of the system correctly, and it causes death.....

I wouldn't want that to happen to one of my Boxer babies...  I would feel SO guilty!  That would be my fault that they died...  That would be like me, putting Cass under, KNOWING there is a good chance, he won't wake up!  Just because I don't want to be careful about him around Aggie....  LUDICROUS!
Kat Medved
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Renee

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Re: PA Banning cropped dogs
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2009, 10:20:27 AM »
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But farmers can castrate pigs, cows, horses and sheep, and that's okay?

Absolutely, along with banding tails and trimming dew claws on dogs.

And maybe your friend crops ears under the direct supervision of a Vet, in a state where it is legal to do so, I don't know.


« Last Edit: March 06, 2009, 10:23:09 AM by Renee »

Newcastle

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Re: PA Banning cropped dogs
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2009, 10:27:52 AM »
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Livestock differs greatly from a companion animal.  I have been owned by horses for 20 years, and was raised on a beef cattle farm, however, I don't have any in my home amongst my children and part of my family.

That's purely emotional, though, and laws (or even 'rules') should not be based on emotion.

However I do need to point out that the proposed PA law does not affect ear cropping - the language on ear cropping is already present in existing PA law, you cannot crop ears unless you are a licensed vet, if you show a cropped dog you must have a certificate from a veterinarian stating the ears were cropped by a vet, and if you have a cropped dog with unhealed ears you are automatically assumed to be guilty of violating the law.  The proposed law wants to extend that ear cropping provision to tails and dewclaws.
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Eilene

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Re: PA Banning cropped dogs
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2009, 10:48:58 AM »
I think a vet should do the ear cropping though but to much goverment makes me worry what is next..
Eilene
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fairview Boxers

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Re: PA Banning cropped dogs
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2009, 10:51:29 AM »
I was always under the impression, by law, companion animals were considered to be different from livestock.  Even horses, are considered different.  They aren't allowed to be slaughtered for human consumption, due to their companionship.  I really think it goes more than just emotional.  Most people that raise livestock, due so for the sake of human consumption.  They don't raise dogs or horses for that same reason!
Kat Medved
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Re: PA Banning cropped dogs
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2009, 11:05:53 AM »
Well, the slaughter of horses for human consumption was just banned on a federal level last year - and, big surprise, we're seeing more and more neglected, abandoned horses because of it.  There's an ongoing debate whether horses are considered livestock or companion animals - most legal definitions of livestock do include horses.

The laws regarding livestock weren't made on an emotional level, though - they go back to a time when for the most part people didn't consider dogs as "furry children", but rather as animals that helped them with a variety of tasks.  Livestock vs. companion animal lines back then were drawn based on function.

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fairview Boxers

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Re: PA Banning cropped dogs
« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2009, 11:11:17 AM »
Call me a traditionalist... but the reason animals were considered livestock, companion animals, etc... originally should still hold true...  I think that people in general have lost the understanding of where we come from, and why we are where we are now... for this reason, (not specifically because of animals, but they play a part).  By forgetting the uses and abilities of our animals, we forget our ancestry and theirs. 

I don't think any type of legislation is going to get us away from seeing neglected or abused animals, livestock, companion or any other....  Many  humans can't even care for their children properly, let alone an animal....   However, this legislation that is trying to be put through isn't going to do anything but take ALL our rights away.....
Kat Medved
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Momto3boys

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Re: PA Banning cropped dogs
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2009, 06:07:13 AM »
I thought in NB it was just against VMA guidelines for vets to crop and dock, not actually against the law?

when I went to get Lucy's needles, the vet checked out Lucy's tail and said "the breeder is lucky"...I asked why and she said if they see any problems with tail removals (infection Im assuming) they can confiscate the dog and whoever did it can do jail time...

so Im assuming it's illegal for breeders to do it as well?

Im going to go look at the website and see what it says
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