Author Topic: What do you think of this Breeder *Update* again 4/17  (Read 3908 times)

Bugsys Mom

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Re: What do you think of this Breeder *Update* again 4/17
« Reply #60 on: April 17, 2007, 09:09:44 AM »
I received this email last night.  I do feel better about the breeder now and I am proud of myself for making another contact in the Boxer world.  I will email him back and I look forward to his updates.  I am however still going to go with the rescue route (that's how I feel right now anyway :) )

Hi Vicky,
 
Hey sorry I did not have much of a chance to get back to you last week.  I was out of town for 2 weeks for some family stuff and had a lot of catching up to do.
 
I wanted to let you know some things about us.  My wife is a long term boxer enthusiast.  She started with boxers in Poland (where she is from)  in the 80's.  When I was a kid, I had been bitten by a German Shepard so I really had no interest in dogs at all.  As often happens, she changed my mind and introduced me to boxers.  I have loved them ever since.
 
My first boxer had food allergies, my second boxer puppy had to be put down at 6 months.  She did not have a disk between 2 of her lumbar vertebrae, her spine grew together and pinched her spinal cord.  She was losing use of her hind legs, had no bladder control, and I had to hand feed her hamburger every day for a couple of months.  She was in a lot of pain.  My third boxer had a prolapsed uterus and had to have an emergency C Section.  She was also under a year old, I returned her to the breeder (the food allergy dog was also from the same breeder) and I elected not to take the replacement puppy.  So you can say that I learned from the school of hard knocks.  I have no tolerance for breeders who produce sick dogs, and this is why I stand by my dogs no matter what.
 
Then we found CoCo from Stan and Jane Flowers (evergreen kennels).  They have been showing and breeding boxers for around 40 years.  Stan is the first professional handler recognized by the AKC and they have produced around 80 champion boxers.  Over the last 5 years they have been our mentors in everything boxers.  We were fortunate enough to be let into their inner circle in the boxer world, even after we had made some mistakes due to lack of experience.  We had tried to show some of our dogs in the past, but CoCo was the first true show quality dog.  She finished in just around 4-5 months so we were very pleased.
 
We bred CoCo because we wanted a new show puppy for ourselves, she has had small litters, and after the stud dog owner takes pick of the litter we did not get what we were looking for.  We do have Ariel, CoCo's daughter who is plain, we showed her a few times, but were passed over for more flashy dogs.  We also have Polly who we were growing up to show, but even though her sire was a top 20 boxer in 2005, does not meet our quality standards, so we are selling her on a spay/neuter basis.  We will not breed her.
 
CoCo is 5 now, so this is her last breeding.  We are just praying we will be able to get something to work with from this breeding.  We usually sell by referral only or to people who already have one of our puppies, but she is so big this time we figured we better be proactive and put out a web site just in case.  So the site is new and unfinished and just has some basics out there.  If we do sell a puppy to someone we don't know, we set up an interview where you can come by and see our girls meet us, and we can get a feel for you as a potential owner.  I can tell you that it is highly unlikely we would place a puppy with you at this time, as we told our friends about this breeding and had a lot of commitments before we did the breeding.
 
Packapunch was the #1 boxer kennel in Canada in 2005.  Judy has produced many multiple BIS winners.  Sir Halo's line has at least 3 BIS winners in the recent 3 generations.  Judy had some eye problems last year and has not been able to do any dog related things last year, she even took down her web site until she can get back to managing things.  To me this was a real shame because I used it as a resource and I would love folks to be able to look at her stuff when evaluating Halo and CoCo's pups.
 
I really like the reverse brindle coloration, and I know that color is just like a paint job on a car, and that there is no such thing as a black boxer, but If I can have an excellent conformation, good temperament dog that happens to be the color I prefer, then that is what I want.  After all I am breeding this dog for me first.
 
I will probably be breeding Ariel next year, and I will put you on my list for updates.  It looks like you are not in a hurry anyway, which is a good thing!!!!!!  Feel free to check in if you have any questions.  I know I always like to get multiple independent opinions from opposing viewpoints, and I an always happy to talk about boxers.  And now you can see that we take this seriously, and are not breeding for the wrong reasons.
 
Thanks
 
Al (612) 961-7026





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Vicky

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Re: What do you think of this Breeder *Update* again 4/17
« Reply #61 on: April 17, 2007, 09:40:10 AM »
What a great response! You should be proud Vicky, we all know how tough it can be to find a responsible breeder, and it sounds like this guy is the real deal. He certainly put a lot of effort into that response...  :yes:

How sad about his first boxer puppies  :(

JugglingWolves

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Re: What do you think of this Breeder *Update* again 4/17
« Reply #62 on: April 17, 2007, 11:22:40 AM »
what a promising response!

steph0808

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Re: What do you think of this Breeder *Update* again 4/17
« Reply #63 on: April 17, 2007, 11:29:18 AM »
Looks like a good response.  It looks like they are still learning; this part really bothered me though: "My third boxer had a prolapsed uterus and had to have an emergency C Section.  She was also under a year old"  They were breeding a bitch that was under a year?  Or did they mean that she had a prolapsed uterus and needed to have a hysterectomy - instead of C section?  Could have been a typo - but that part worried me.
Riley - 9/19/2008

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Re: What do you think of this Breeder *Update* again 4/17
« Reply #64 on: April 17, 2007, 11:37:24 AM »
I wondered about that, too, but later on he mentions that they had made mistakes before meeting Stan and Jane - that may have been one of them.  They obviously know better now, and sometimes the lessons that stick the most are those learned the hard way.  I try not to focus solely on what someone has done in the past, but rather on what they have learned from it and whether they are doing things right in the present (and will continue to do so in the future). :)
Jennifer Walker
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Bugsys Mom

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Re: What do you think of this Breeder *Update* again 4/17
« Reply #65 on: April 17, 2007, 11:41:33 AM »
Jennifer-Does he look promising to you?
Vicky

Debi

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Re: What do you think of this Breeder
« Reply #66 on: April 17, 2007, 07:11:58 PM »
I know I have a lot of questions to ask, but I am sooo intimidated where to start.  I have been reading Jennifer's questions to ask a breeder, but I am scared I will say something to turn a good breeder off to me.

I have no confidence. ::)

I think I hear myself talking :yes:

Debi

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Re: What do you think of this Breeder
« Reply #67 on: April 17, 2007, 07:13:37 PM »
I like their "objectives", nothing that bothers me there. And I like the link to the CoE. I'd say definitely someone to contact and get to know better. I'd ask about their health testing, the goals of their breeding program, their rearing and training philosphies.

I also think Halo looks black, and I wonder if they even have him turned not-quite-to-profile to enhance the black look. I am skeptical of and turned off by any breeder who is too interested in breeding "reverse brindles".

What exactly do you mean by "goals of program" and "philosophies"?

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Re: What do you think of this Breeder *Update* again 4/17
« Reply #68 on: April 17, 2007, 07:42:16 PM »
The goals of their breeding program could be: Breeding for a specific "type", head type, build, some breeders are breeding imports from the UK or Europe and that could explain some of the goals of their breeding program. Other goals might be eliminating certain health problems from their line, or breeding for a certain temperament. Some breeders are interested in working dogs and so breed for the qualities that would help them compete and succeed in trials and competitions, while others are breeding for great family pets (that are also to standard and healthy ;), breeding for family-friendly temperaments is no excuse to bypass the other important parts of breeding).

Rearing and training philosophies: What kind of training do they use and want for the puppies? What are their thoughts on specific training devices that you are interested in or concerned about (i.e. Electric fences, shock collars, prong collars, etc.) Are any of their dogs titled in obedience, or have their CGC title? What do they feed their dogs? How informed are they on feeding and general health issues? I'm not overly impressed by a breeder who is ecstatic about some crappy dog food that I know is not very good quality. IAMS and Eukanuba - a lot of breeders recommend these yucky foods. I prefer a breeder who is better educated about nutrition. A raw feeder, or someone who is open to raw feeding, or home cooking, or at least knows more about healthy commercial foods. I'd want my puppy to be fed a quality food from birth. Other things I'd be interested in are their thoughts on vaccination schedules, natural care, holistic medicine.

Of course, you don't have to ask all of these questions! :laugh4: Just a general question about their rearing and training and breeding philosophies and goals, and then let them explain it to you, but this gives you ideas of what sorts of things they might talk about, and maybe things you want to follow up with them about. You should think about what kinds of things are important to you, what things are absolutely required, and which ones you will overlook in order to find the right puppy. Then, just start asking questions, open up a dialogue, tell them about yourself and show that you are really interested in providing only the best for your new puppy.
Amber