Author Topic: Evaluation Please  (Read 2134 times)

Samsons Mom

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Re: Evaluation Please
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2009, 10:01:56 PM »
samson deff has a roach back. and his tail set is off. but i love him no matter what :smitten:
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jinxx

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Re: Evaluation Please
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2009, 10:04:55 PM »
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ltournat

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Re: Evaluation Please
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2009, 10:11:09 PM »
Thanks Jill!  Ya I definitely see the roach back and lower tail set now.  I guess he doesn't have the upturn to the nose, but that isn't illustrated in the boxer standard, so is that a big deal?  Jill, do you think his muzzle is too long?
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roxeli

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Re: Evaluation Please
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2009, 12:16:48 AM »
I don't think Felix's muzzle is too long at all.  If you look at champion Boxers from the past, even the German lines, had a little bit longer muzzle than some of the lines we see today.  Evidently, today's trend calls for shorter muzzles even in North America.  But the standard is very clear and we all know that the muzzle should be 1/3 of the head.  I see a lot of bull dog looking muzzles and some with way too long muzzles. 

Here are some pictures of early champions:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca2/pawprintboxers/bangaway.html
http://www.ukboxerdogs.co.uk/big4inam.html#bang_away_of_sirrah_crest

And now we're seeing more of this muzzle:
http://www.euro-boxer.com/dogs/devi/main.html


roxeli

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Re: Evaluation Please
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2009, 12:29:07 AM »
This page, at the bottom, shows the Munich Silhouette which is what the ideal boxer should look like:
http://www.worldwideboxer.com/style7.html

This shows a comparison of how the different head types measure up to the Munich silhouette.  Very interesting.  It shows North American, UK, and German heads in this comparison.  At the very bottom is reads, "You can see from of these profiles that most European heads have moved away from the Munich Silhouette more than the other two areas."  The North American lines look closer to the Munich silhouette.  I think German lines have too short of a muzzle:
http://www.worldwideboxer.com/style8.html

These are good pages for understanding the Boxer's skull:
http://www.worldwideboxer.com/skull.html
http://www.worldwideboxer.com/head_measurements.html
« Last Edit: January 04, 2009, 12:35:09 AM by roxeli »

alncris

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Re: Evaluation Please
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2009, 03:23:53 PM »
I agree with the critique everyone has made with regard to lack of turn up, roach back and tailset. A dog can appear to have a roach back depending on how it moves and stands. That single picture is questionable.
Has anyone noted the lack of chin? or are the flews too long?

With regards to the Munich Silhouette, I think people treat it as the blueprint for the boxer head. I have my doubts that the creators of the silhouette really meant it as so.
Not to say that the head should not be similiar to it. Does anyone know for sure?

In any manner I hate critiquing others dogs because there is no perfect dog, not even coveted champions.
Why are we critiquing your white boxer? Are you thinking of breeding?
The Boxer is the soul of fidelity, bravery, and honesty. The worst faults of character a Boxer can show are viciousness, treachery, unreliability, lack of temperament and cowardice.- Frau Stockmann

BoxerPerson

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Re: Evaluation Please
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2009, 03:34:45 PM »
alncris...Felix is fixed...I think Lisa just wanted an opinion because she had been to a AB show yesterday and saw all the boxers.
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ltournat

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Re: Evaluation Please
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2009, 04:43:03 PM »
alncris...Felix is fixed...I think Lisa just wanted an opinion because she had been to a AB show yesterday and saw all the boxers.

 :yes:
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BoxerWB

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Re: Evaluation Please
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2009, 04:46:19 PM »
Roxeli - 1/3 of the head, but it seems like there is confusion on how to measure (at least for us newbies)... is it 1/3 the total head (including muzzle) or 1/3 the length of just the skull section of the head.

I do think his nose looks more than 1/3 of his head, but might look shorter if he had turn up.
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Rubidawg

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Re: Evaluation Please
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2009, 09:27:11 PM »
OK, I'm totally no expert, but I'd like to learn....

Re: the turn up...

To me, it looks like Felix has a bit of a turnup? It's not nearly as defined/pushed up like Jinx's girl. But, it doesn't look like it's straight across either. It does look like there is a slight slope in the profile pic. And in the pic in Lisa's avatar, I always thought his nose looked pretty turned up, like the nose is above the chin kinda thing (hard to explain). But is this not what is really meant when they say turn up?

Even in the silhouette, it doesn't look pushed in, just looks sloped up. So is there really a clear definition of turnup? I'm curious, cuz I'm lookin at Grady and trying to see the difference. Rubi definitely is flat all the way across, but looks like Grady is getting more sloped upwards.
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Re: Evaluation Please
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2009, 09:50:25 PM »
In the one picture Felix does have some turn-up not alot .  The top of his nose is higher then his stop .   I don't think his muzzle is to long when you measure  compaired to the 1/3rd formula .   To me he lacks depth of Muzzle and maybe that gives the apperance of a longer muzzle ?   In the stacked picture  he is roachy , with a low tail set . 

  I love the way Felix looked at you  when you tryed to stack him  :laugh4:   , he is so cute   :smitten:     
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roxeli

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Re: Evaluation Please
« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2009, 07:43:39 PM »
Roxeli - 1/3 of the head, but it seems like there is confusion on how to measure (at least for us newbies)... is it 1/3 the total head (including muzzle) or 1/3 the length of just the skull section of the head.

I do think his nose looks more than 1/3 of his head, but might look shorter if he had turn up.

You can see the difference between the muzzle being 1/3 of the head vs. 1/4 of the head, and how to measure here:
http://www.worldwideboxer.com/head_measurements.html

roxeli

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Re: Evaluation Please
« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2009, 07:56:14 PM »
I love the pictures of this past Champion "Barrage Of Quality Hill:"
http://www.angelfire.com/ca2/pawprintboxers/barrage.html

Handsome guy that he was, I wonder how he would do in the show ring today?  By today's standards, would his muzzle be considered too long? 

"Bang Away of Sirrah Crest" had a similar muzzle too:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca2/pawprintboxers/bangaway.html

Interesting stuff.  I think I'll do a separate thread on this.  I wonder how these two would measure up in the ring today!

BoxerWB

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Re: Evaluation Please
« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2009, 08:38:39 PM »
I was about to say, both those dogs seem to lack upturn.

I don't think NA boxers are tending towards the too-short noses in general. It's definitely a trend overseas to a larger extent. There are good dogs w/well proportioned heads everywhere, of course!
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