Author Topic: Investigation ties Petland to puppy mills  (Read 12944 times)

KidneyBeans

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Re: Investigation ties Petland to puppy mills
« Reply #30 on: February 03, 2009, 10:50:51 AM »
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(I'll preemptively remind people to keep their emotions in check if this discussion continues - this is no doubt a highly controversial subject and it has the potential to explode very easily!  I'll point out quite clearly that no one here approves of dogs being mass-produced, and we all deplore those breeders who keep their dogs in filthy conditions and neglect their health and basic care.  I do think it's valuable to explore all sides of an issue such as this, but it must be done within the forum guidelines of respect and civility.  Thanks in advance for your cooperation.  )

So because I disagree wholeheartedly I get "the note". My emotions are in check...I am civil. I do find it odd that this is my third repramand for stating facts and my view of the situation. I've been told that I've kept a topic going when I should have walked away...humm...is that so because I'm just supposed to agree? I think not. Delusional is what anyone is if they think that any form of puppymill, commercial kennel or whatever you want to call it is concerned about their puppies...if they were so concerned and did all that research then they would know better than to do what they are doing.
I've been to many many many puppymills, commercial kennels and whatnot...how many do you have experience with? All I am saying is that I will debate my point until I'm blue in the face. I have experience with these horrid places...I know better than to sugar coat the situation. There are only a few types, Reputable breeders, Puppymills (AKA private breeders) and commercial kennels (AKA brokers), Backyard Breeders...and that is it. There is no in between.
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Re: Investigation ties Petland to puppy mills
« Reply #31 on: February 03, 2009, 10:57:34 AM »
Elisha, my preemptive comment was not directed specifically at any one person.  It was, as I stated, preemptive - meaning it was intended to head off any trouble before it starts.  Had you been "reprimanded", it would have been done privately.  We do not discuss moderation issues on the public forum.

You see the situation in black and white - that is fine.  Others see shades of grey - that is also fine.  Discussion of the various sides of the matter and whether there can be any agreement on parts of it is also fine, so long as it remains respectful and civil. 
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Re: Investigation ties Petland to puppy mills
« Reply #32 on: February 03, 2009, 12:37:50 PM »
Jen, I don't believe it is black & white or shades of grey...it is the prinnciple of the breeding programs...some are for moneyand some are for the love of the breed...that pretty much is ths sum total of it IMO.  I thought we are a collective group were against the "manufacturing" of puppies, and the manufacturing en mass and for profit...am I wrong?
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KidneyBeans

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Re: Investigation ties Petland to puppy mills
« Reply #33 on: February 03, 2009, 12:45:52 PM »
Truer words were never spoken.... :thumbsup:
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Re: Investigation ties Petland to puppy mills
« Reply #34 on: February 03, 2009, 12:50:22 PM »
I thought we are a collective group were against the "manufacturing" of puppies, and the manufacturing en mass and for profit...am I wrong?

I still think we are a collective group against manufactuing puppies en mass.  I think the "shades of gray" Jen was referring to where based on comments by some other members earlier in the thread about the similarities and differences between a "puppy mill" and a "commercial breeder."  Whether or not each of us see them differently, or see them as all the same, that's where the shades of gray come in....but I don't think that means that anyone here is promoting these operations in any form.
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Re: Investigation ties Petland to puppy mills
« Reply #35 on: February 03, 2009, 12:56:46 PM »
I thought we are a collective group were against the "manufacturing" of puppies, and the manufacturing en mass and for profit...am I wrong?

I still think we are a collective group against manufacturing puppies en mass.  I think the "shades of gray" Jen was referring to where based on comments by some other members earlier in the thread about the similarities and differences between a "puppy mill" and a "commercial breeder."  Whether or not each of us see them differently, or see them as all the same, that's where the shades of gray come in....but I don't think that means that anyone here is promoting these operations in any form.
I agree.  Also, there are levels in everything.  I don't agree with commercial breeding, but there are levels.  Not all commercial breeders are puppy mills.  There is definitely a difference. 
Vicky

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Re: Investigation ties Petland to puppy mills
« Reply #36 on: February 03, 2009, 12:57:27 PM »
Brandy...en mass, isn't that what both do?  What is the difference between commercial or puppy mill?  They both are doing the same thing and that is where I have all my isses...breeding puppies without regard to the health, conformation or temperment of the parents. Breeding for $$$

If we have to use the color wheel, then there shoulf be NO shades of grey...only black & white since the end result is exactly the same!
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Re: Investigation ties Petland to puppy mills
« Reply #37 on: February 03, 2009, 01:00:15 PM »
I tell you what, the next time I see this nimrob with all these different puppies for sale I will stop in and see if I can get some pics of the setup...this person sell 6 to 7 "pure" breeds and I can't tell you how many mutts, oh excuse me, designer breeds...EVERY 3 to 4 months!
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blynn03

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Re: Investigation ties Petland to puppy mills
« Reply #38 on: February 03, 2009, 01:04:23 PM »
I didn't say it was ME who was talking about similarities and differences...I just said that's what Jen was referring to.  I personally disagree with all of the operations who produce puppies "en mass".  I would never buy a puppy from them.  However, I also recognize that there's a difference between ones that might keep their facilities clean (which may be few and far between), and the ones that make their dogs live in their own feces.

I don't like either of those situations...neither is doing good for our breed.  I think the shades of "gray" would come in because I think the one that makes the dogs live in their own feces is worse because the pups are kept in worse conditions.  I don't favor the operation that is clean, I still wouldn't buy from them and I would still like to see them get shut down....I just think that the immediate well-being of the dogs living there isn't in as immediate danger as the pups at the other one.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2009, 01:05:55 PM by blynn03 »
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Re: Investigation ties Petland to puppy mills
« Reply #39 on: February 03, 2009, 01:11:42 PM »
Just makes me think the one with the cleaner facilities charges more for the pups so it can afford help...I still see no difference in being FORCED to have a litter of puppies every time you have a season or every other season! I agree that cleanliness is important, but I do not agree with the sum of the total, which is to breed for profit without regard to health, conformation & temperment of the breed and what it takes to make a good companion animal period. And this is a common denominator of the two facilities...greed and money!

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Re: Investigation ties Petland to puppy mills
« Reply #40 on: February 03, 2009, 01:16:34 PM »
I agree with you...that's why I said I am against them both.  All I'm saying is that I can recognize the differences....not that these differences make them acceptible.
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Re: Investigation ties Petland to puppy mills
« Reply #41 on: February 03, 2009, 01:24:25 PM »
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Not all commercial breeders are puppy mills.


http://www.katewerk.com/puppymill.html

IMO, commercial breeders and puppymills are one in the same. If you are in it for the almighty dollar than you suck and that's that.
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Re: Investigation ties Petland to puppy mills
« Reply #42 on: February 03, 2009, 01:26:58 PM »
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Not all commercial breeders are puppy mills.


http://www.katewerk.com/puppymill.html

IMO, commercial breeders and puppymills are one in the same. If you are in it for the almighty dollar than you suck and that's that.

I agree, but puppymills are traditionally substandard living facilities where the animals sleep in their own waste and are neglected horribly.
Commercial breeders have better facilities and the animals are healthier.  They follow USDA regulations.  After all, if the animals are sickly they don't produce as well, it benefits their greed to keep their animals healthy.

Make no mistake, i think they are both wrong, But there are varying degrees of wrong.
Vicky

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Re: Investigation ties Petland to puppy mills
« Reply #43 on: February 03, 2009, 01:31:31 PM »
I agree, but puppymills are traditionally substandard living facilities where the animals sleep in their own waste and are neglected horribly.
Commercial breeders have better facilities and the animals are healthier.  They follow USDA regulations.  After all, if the animals are sickly they don't produce as well, it benefits their greed to keep their animals healthy.

Make no mistake, i think they are both wrong, But there are varying degrees of wrong.

Well I invite you to come visit Duncan. We have one of the worst commercial breeders in the country here. His animals do lay in filth, urine and feces. So maybe you need to say "some" commercial breeders have better facilities and the animals are healthier. I still beg to differ with that statement...have any of you ever been to a commercial breeding facility? If not I suggest you go...but beware, many will not allow you on their property. Yes, this breeder was USDA inspected...he has countless violations.
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Re: Investigation ties Petland to puppy mills
« Reply #44 on: February 03, 2009, 01:32:12 PM »
I agree, but puppymills are traditionally substandard living facilities where the animals sleep in their own waste and are neglected horribly.
Commercial breeders have better facilities and the animals are healthier.  They follow USDA regulations.  After all, if the animals are sickly they don't produce as well, it benefits their greed to keep their animals healthy.

Make no mistake, i think they are both wrong, But there are varying degrees of wrong.

Well I invite you to come visit Duncan. We have one of the worst commercial breeders in the country here. His animals do lay in filth, urine and feces. So maybe you need to say "some" commercial breeders have better facilities and the animals are healthier. I still beg to differ with that statement...have any of you ever been to a commercial breeding facility? If not I suggest you go...but beware, many will not allow you on their property. Yes, this breeder was USDA inspected...he has countless violations.
In the case of Duncan I would say that is a puppymill.
Vicky