Author Topic: Investigation ties Petland to puppy mills  (Read 13210 times)

Newcastle

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Re: Investigation ties Petland to puppy mills
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2009, 08:37:09 AM »
More on this "investigation":

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An Open Letter to The Humane Society of the United States (HSUS)
January 19, 2009
http://www.petland.com/truth/RequestForDocumentation.htm

Dear Humane Society of the United States,

Petland is continuing its stand against substandard breeders. As such, Petland has repeatedly, over the last two months, asked the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) to provide information that will lead to the relief of numerous distressed animals allegedly identified by your organization in your supposed report. If there was an 8 month investigation and the last two months of unfulfilled requests for
information are included, then this is a period spanning 10 months where animals were suffering and HSUS did nothing. The HSUS has not provided this specific information to Petland or to the USDA.

If information exists, for the welfare of the supposedly identified animals, please supply that information immediately to the proper authorities and to Petland so we may provide assistance. Only with this specific information may assistance be rendered to the animals.

We strongly contend that the HSUS has not reported its supposed findings to the proper authorities because HSUS has no substantive information to provide to the authorities. One cannot report baseless slander as evidence to a federal agency.

Facts are stubborn things. The continuous emotional spin and sensationalized slander by your organization cannot alter stubborn facts.

These are the facts:

Fact: The HSUS has not supplied Petland with any material, other than USDA reports which were already public record. The few USDA reports provided by you are dated and many regard breeders that are on Petland's "Do Not Buy" list.

Fact: Videos used by HSUS in the slanderous attack upon our good name show dogs in cages that have no connection to Petland, (as verified personally by Stephanie Shain during a phone conversation with Petland Vice President Joe Watson on Dec. 9, 2008), however, the title above the video of the distressed animals falsely says, "Petland Investigation."

Fact: Videos of breeders on the HSUS Web site, referenced by you as "evidence," are on Petland's "DO NOT BUY" list, which means we have identified them as substandard breeders and are not doing business with them.

Fact: Petland has taken a stand against substandard breeders by forcing the closure of substandard breeding facilities and, as a result, have raised the bar for the entire pet industry.

Fact: Through Petland's "Pets For a Lifetime," "Adopt-A-Pet," early Spay/Neuter programs and our Humane Care Guidelines, Petland has a proven history of taking action and improving the lives of pets for more than 41 years.

Fact: Petland has agreed to meet with HSUS once we have received the information we have justly requested.

Fact: The summary of the HSUS "investigation" shows your organization listed Petland stores in states that do not operate stores.

Once we have received the information we originally requested 57 days ago, we will review it as a basis for a substantive discussion.

We genuinely want a solution that is best for the animals.

As Petland is committed to taking a stand against substandard breeders, we welcome all partners in this noble undertaking and urge that the requested information is sent immediately.

Sincerely,

The Petland Family
Jennifer Walker
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Renee

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Re: Investigation ties Petland to puppy mills
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2009, 08:55:05 AM »
Fact:  Renee knows a guy who has sold 3 litters of American Bulldog Puppies to PetLand in Janesville, WI for about $75 a puppy.  Any puppy he cannot sell in the newspaper or to his friends is then turned over to PetLand.

Fact:  The mother of these puppies lives indoors (as long as someone remembers to let her in the house) and with an intact male American Bulldog and there is no effort made to plan or prevent pregnancies - they free breed.

Fact:  The pair have produced numerous puppies with severe temperament problems as adults. 






Newcastle

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Re: Investigation ties Petland to puppy mills
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2009, 09:34:57 AM »
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Fact:  The pair have produced numerous puppies with severe temperament problems as adults. 

A very good example of why one should not buy a puppy from a pet store; and based on fact rather than fabrication. :)
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BurningRiver

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Re: Investigation ties Petland to puppy mills
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2009, 12:03:20 PM »
Fact: Petland has taken a stand against substandard breeders by forcing the closure of substandard breeding facilities and, as a result, have raised the bar for the entire pet industry.

Puhleaz! Hate to tell you Petland, but you've had no influence over me, unless you consider showing me "how not to do it" as raising the bar for the entire industry.
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blynn03

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Re: Investigation ties Petland to puppy mills
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2009, 12:34:44 PM »
Why can't people just do the right thing instead of spending so much time, effort and money trying to think of ways to make it LOOK like they are?   :wall:


Really, this opinion goes beyond just the pet store/puppy mill issue and applies to SO many other businesses, industries, and even individuals.  I won't even get into the BS that has been going on with my company lately.  It sickens me.   :barf:
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Re: Investigation ties Petland to puppy mills
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2009, 12:47:05 PM »
Jess, I don't think PetLand includes you in the "pet industry". :)

The point, though, to me is more that they're calling the HSUS out on fabricating data - "coincidentally" just before the biggest season for charitable giving....
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blynn03

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Re: Investigation ties Petland to puppy mills
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2009, 12:51:58 PM »
You would think that if they want to call out the HSUS on fabricating data, they'd avoid doing the same in their press release, or whatever this was.

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Fact: Petland has taken a stand against substandard breeders by forcing the closure of substandard breeding facilities and, as a result, have raised the bar for the entire pet industry.

This, to me, is completely fabricated.  Who knows what their definition of a substandard facility really is?  I mean....after the firsthand account Renee gave us, how could anyone trust that their definition is even remotely reasonable? 

The whole thing just makes me sick.
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Re: Investigation ties Petland to puppy mills
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2009, 12:54:54 PM »
I'd imagine they're referring to USDA standards, to which Renee's acquaintance is not subject.
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blynn03

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Re: Investigation ties Petland to puppy mills
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2009, 12:56:12 PM »
So they're referring to "commercial" breeders, or something of the like?
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Re: Investigation ties Petland to puppy mills
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2009, 01:07:15 PM »
So they're referring to "commercial" breeders, or something of the like?
That's what it sounds like to me.  Commercial Breeders follow USDA regulations and Puppy Mills do not.  Although Commercial Breeders do not fall into my opinion of responsible breeders they are well above the puppy millers IMO. They are least care about keeping a healthy breeding stock.
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Re: Investigation ties Petland to puppy mills
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2009, 01:15:22 PM »
That makes sense....however, I still think Petland is full of crap here.  Okay, so maybe they do get *some* dogs from these types of "commercial breeders," but clearly they use other sources as well (i.e. the AB "breeder" Renee mentioned).  It's just another case of presenting the small percentage of information that reflects favorably while leaving out the vast majority of the info that's going to show the whole truth and expose Petland (and others like it) for what they really are.   :wall:
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Re: Investigation ties Petland to puppy mills
« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2009, 01:20:06 PM »
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So they're referring to "commercial" breeders, or something of the like?

Right; not all PetLand stores buy from private breeders, but I think they would all buy from commercial breeders or their brokers.  

Vicky's got the gist of it. :)  There are levels, as with all things; the best is what we here call a responsible breeder, of course; the worst is one of those 'substandard' facilities that mass-produces dogs with little concern for their health or welfare - the facilities where the dogs actually are covered in filth, neglected, emaciated, diseased, etc.  
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KidneyBeans

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Re: Investigation ties Petland to puppy mills
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2009, 09:56:31 AM »
I see nothing fair about Petland...we have two huge puppymills here in Duncan. Actually on the top of the worst breeders listing and racked up the most USDA violations nationwide. One had 600+ dogs and the other had 400+ but they just had an auction the other day so they could buy their new "crop".  :veryangry:
The words "Fair and "Petland" do not belong in the same sentence

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Right; not all PetLand stores buy from private breeders, but I think they would all buy from commercial breeders or their brokers.

Just for those of you who do not know, what she is referring to as private breeders are what most people think of when they hear the word "puppymill". The ONLY difference between a (gag me) "private breeder" and a (gag me) "commercial breeder" is that one sells to the public, via those cute little website you see online, and the other sells directly to the brokers. That in turn sell to places like Petland, ect. They all mass-produce animals...that's why they have hundreds of dogs.

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Vicky's got the gist of it.   There are levels, as with all things; the best is what we here call a responsible breeder, of course; the worst is one of those 'substandard' facilities that mass-produces dogs with little concern for their health or welfare - the facilities where the dogs actually are covered in filth, neglected, emaciated, diseased, etc. 

I guarantee that all of the "private breeders" and "commercial breeders" as you refer to them, are scum bags that are in it for the almighty dollar. 99.9% of the time these animals are kept in horrid conditions and to say otherwise or to "pretty up" the picture is disgusting...
« Last Edit: February 03, 2009, 10:09:20 AM by KidneyBeans »
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Re: Investigation ties Petland to puppy mills
« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2009, 10:21:09 AM »
So they're referring to "commercial" breeders, or something of the like?
That's what it sounds like to me.  Commercial Breeders follow USDA regulations and Puppy Mills do not.  Although Commercial Breeders do not fall into my opinion of responsible breeders they are well above the puppy millers IMO. They are least care about keeping a healthy breeding stock.

I beg to differ with you...and excuse my laugh. The USDA is not "hard" on these people and it takes a lot for them to shut one down. I've dealt with them before...When the inspector sites that there is fecal matter on the ground...that means it is the worst possible, anything beyond your belief. Here is a commercial breeder from Duncan (where I live) I have been to this place and it is hell on earth...I could smell the place before I even pulled up.

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Oklahoma dog brokers Robert and Darlene Lourance received the distinction of being number 4 in the TOP 10 WORST DOG BROKERS in Oklahoma, racking up 14 USDA violations between 2003 and 2006. Four of the violations were under the category of “cleaning, sanitization, housekeeping and pest control, affecting SIX HUNDRED and NINETY dogs.

Puppies of Westport recently began using the Lourances and received at least four puppies from them in April, 2008. The Lourances also ship dogs to Claws N Paws Plus in Norwalk, Ct.

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--Robert and Darlene Lourance, Duncan, Oklahoma--

Feb. 5, 2008: "The 7 year old female French Bulldog named "Anna Marie" has a left eye that is either missing or severely infected. There is only tissue with no eye visible where the eye would normally [be]. The owners indicated that the veterinarian had recently visited the facility and did not comment on the eye of this animal. The animal needs to be seen by the attending veterinarian to diagnose and properly treat the animal to comply with animal husbandry practices."

Feb. 5, 2008: "The 'Record of Acquisition and Dogs and Cats on Hand (7005 form) lists approximately 169 breeding adults. The total number of adults accounted for during inspection is 447 adults and 116 puppies. The 7005 form needs to be kept up to date and maintained at all times to comply with animal husbandry practices. Affects 563 animals."

Feb. 5, 2008: "A majority of the outdoor housing units did not have wind/rain breaks provided at the entrances of the housing units. All outdoor housing units need a wind/rain break provided to provide shelter from weather conditions and to comply with animal husbandry practices. Affects approximately 250 animals."

Feb. 5, 2008: "Throughout the outdoor facility, the housing units have little to no bedding provided. The outdoor temperature recorded is 41 degrees F. All outdoor housing units must contain and adequate amount of clean, dry bedding when the temperature is below 50 degrees F. Additional bedding provided when the temperature is 35 degrees or lower to comply with animal husbandry practices. Affects 299 animals."

Feb. 5, 2008: "Throughout the outdoor facility, the wooden and plastic housing units continue to be extremely chewed up at the entrances. The plastic housing units that are chewed up also have started to fall apart where they were snapped together. Wooden surfaces inside the housing units are extremely chewed or scratched up. House unit #164 has a hole in the floor which is visible from the entrance area. Another wooden housing unit has holds to the outside in the corner area of the wall. The owners have replaced some of the wooden units with plastic units since the last inspection. They have further indicated that all outdoor units will be replace with plastic units. All wooden surfaces, entrances and housing units must either be repaired or replaced to eliminate chewed up entrances, provide adequate protection from the weather, kept clean, sanitized and maintained on a regular basis to comply with animal husbandry practices. Affects approximately 75 animals."

Feb. 5, 2008: "The outdoor facility has metal and plastic feeding receptacles. Some of the metal self feeding receptacles have rusted and started to crumble apart creating holes in the feeders. The plastic feeding receptacles are extremely chewed up around the edges and can no longer be sanitized properly. All feeding receptacles that are rusted and extremely chewed up must be replaced, kept clean and sanitized to comply with animal husbandry practices. Affects approximately 20 animals."

Feb. 6, 2007: "A majority of the animals are currently identified using a microchip. However, some of the juvenile animals are not microchipped and have no identification provided. All of the puppies observed have no identification. There is no other approved identification system provided as a way of identifying the puppies and the animals are not microchipped. All animals on the premise that are held, purchased or acquired must be immediately identified as approved by the regulations set forth, kept up to date and to comply with animal husbandry practices. Affects approximately 150 animals."

Feb. 6, 2007: "Throughout the outdoor facility, the wooden and plastic housing units are extremely chewed up at the entrances. Some of the wooden entrance panels are chewed up to 1/4 of the original wall. The plastic housing units are chewed up to a point that it can no longer provide adequate shelter from the weather. The wooden surfaces in direct contact of the animals are also no longer impervious to moisture. All wooden surfaces in direct contact of the animals must be constructed of material that is impervious to moisture. The wooden and plastic housing units must either be replaced or repaired to eliminate chewed up entrances, provide adequate protection from the weather, maintained on a regular basis and comply with animal husbandry practices. Affects approximately 180 animals."

Feb. 6, 2007: "a majority of the indoor wire enclosures contain 3 to 4 animals per pen. Overcrowding is observed throughout the indoor facility. Some of the animals are observed to not have sufficient space to lie in a comfortable position all at once. The owner indicated that there is overcrowding due to grooming and preparation for a sale. She further indicated that the animals are unable to be housed outside due to the cold weather after they are groomed. The indoor primary wire enclosures must be constructed to provide sufficient space for all animals contained to eliminate overcrowding and comply with animal husbandry practices. Affects approximately 100 animals."

February 6, 2007: "The indoor primary enclosures, excluding the puppy room has an excessive amount of feces, hair, dirt and grime build up. The trays under some of the primary enclosures have a large build up of feces and hair that have not been properly cleaned out or sanitized. The outdoor east ground area next to the facility containing a washdown, has a build of feces, hair, debris and waste that has not been cleaned and sanitized for a period of time. The build up has started to cover the washdown including the ground area. Ground areas underneath other outdoor raised units also have a build up of waste that has not been removed. All primary enclosures, trays, washdowns and ground areas underneath housing units must either be raked, cleaned, washed, and/or sanitized as often as possible to prevent accumulation of feces, waste, reduce odors, disease hazards and comply with animal husbandry practices. Affects approximately 350 animals."

Sept. 26, 2006: "During the time of inspection, all puppies on the premise did not have any USDA approved identification system provided. All animals including puppies less than 16 weeks of age must be identified as indicated by the regulations and to comply with animal husbandry practices. Affects 196 animals."

Sept. 26, 2006: "During the time of inspection, the outdoor housing units located throughout the facility had the wooden or plastic entrances chewed up and had become jagged. One of the wooden housing units had a hole in the floor where the sharp points of the nails were sticking through. All housing units must be repaired or replaced to eliminate jagged edges and all nails removed and repaired to eliminate injury to the animals and personnel and to comply with animal husbandry practices. Affects approximately 30 animals."

Sept. 26, 2006: "During the time of inspection, the indoor washdown, the trays under the cages and housing units throughout the facility had an excessive amount of grime, dirt, mud, debris and other build up that had not been cleaned or sanitized for a period of time. The owner indicated that the outdoor housing units were cleaned out once a year. All housing units, trays and washdowns need to be washed and sanitized at least once every 2 weeks or more often as necessary to decrease odors, debris, dirt, disease hazards, and to comply with animal husbandry practices. Affects 601 animals."

Feb. 27, 2008: "Dear Mr. and Ms. Lourance, The enclosed APHIS Form 7060, 'Official Warning, Violation of Federal Regulations' is being issued to you for alleged violations of the Federal Animal Welfare Act. This notice is being issued at this time as a serious warning that if you fail to comply with the requirements of the Animal Welfare Act in the future, this citation and all past and future documented violations will be used to justify a more severe penalty. The Animal Welfare Act provides for penalties of up to $3,750 per violation."
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Newcastle

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Re: Investigation ties Petland to puppy mills
« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2009, 10:23:39 AM »
Quote
Just for those of you who do not know, what she is referring to as private breeders are what most people think of when they hear the word "puppymill".

Actually, what "she" was referring to as a private breeder was the type Renee mentioned in her previous post; one bitch, one dog, bred at will, and puppies that are not sold via the newspaper are sold to the pet store.  Not ideal by a long run, but far from a "puppymill".

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The ONLY difference between a (gag me) "private breeder" and a (gag me) "commercial breeder" is that one sells to the public, via those cute little website you see online, and the other sells directly to the brokers.

That's your definition; others may have different ones.  There are commercial breeders that would fit my definition of "puppymill", and other that would not.

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I guarantee that all of the "private breeders" and "commercial breeders" as you refer to them, are scum bags that are in it for the almighty dollar. 99.9$ of the time these animals are kept in horrid conditions and to say otherwise or to "pretty up" the picture is disgusting...

I can't imagine how you can begin to say that, unless you've been to every commercial breeding facility in the country.  There are many neglectful breeders, certainly, but there are numerous state-of-the-art facilities whose dogs are kept better than most in-home breeder's are; there are commercial breeders who spend more time learning about dog health, genetic conditions, proper nutrition, etc. than some of the top 'show breeders' in the country.  That doesn't make them great sources for puppies, but neither does it make them abusive or neglectful.

(I'll preemptively remind people to keep their emotions in check if this discussion continues - this is no doubt a highly controversial subject and it has the potential to explode very easily!  I'll point out quite clearly that no one here approves of dogs being mass-produced, and we all deplore those breeders who keep their dogs in filthy conditions and neglect their health and basic care.  I do think it's valuable to explore all sides of an issue such as this, but it must be done within the forum guidelines of respect and civility.  Thanks in advance for your cooperation. :) )
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