Boxer Crazy

The Competitive Boxer => Conformation Showing => Topic started by: Hickoryrockkenn on June 04, 2012, 09:53:13 PM

Title: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Hickoryrockkenn on June 04, 2012, 09:53:13 PM
Rebel will be 3 years old in a few days. Please tell me what you think hes 72lbs (last weighted) and 26 inches tall. All input welcomed, hes not been in a show yet being in a wheelchair makes it a tad harder to show him but I still would like to. :thumbsup: Thanks.

(http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i448/HickoryRockKennels/rebelwink-1.png)
(http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i448/HickoryRockKennels/rebel2.png)
(http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i448/HickoryRockKennels/12.jpg)
(http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i448/HickoryRockKennels/DSC00411.jpg)
(http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i448/HickoryRockKennels/DSC00415.jpg)
(http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i448/HickoryRockKennels/DSC00449.jpg)
www.hickoryrockkennels.com
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: BoxerPerson on June 05, 2012, 06:19:39 AM
Where did you get him and Bella from?
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Hickoryrockkenn on June 05, 2012, 06:27:40 AM
I got rebel off a breeder in Petersburg wv and her out of northern va
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: BoxerPerson on June 05, 2012, 07:49:54 AM
Do the breeders have names or kennels? 
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Bruins_Boxer on June 05, 2012, 09:57:31 AM
Since he is not in a stacked position it is hard to tell how his body looks .
I do think that his muzzle looks too long in the side profile shots . It is hard to tell much more about his head as the other head pictures are not straight on .
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: BoxerPerson on June 05, 2012, 10:04:14 AM
I agree with Missi...his muzzle looks way too long IMO, but it could be the pictures.  Since you do no have him in a stacked position, it is very hard to see if he is a good representation of the breed. 

Are you planning on breeding your 2 dogs?  IMO - It looks like Bella is in heat in the first picture you posted...
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Hickoryrockkenn on June 05, 2012, 10:35:01 AM
I am working on scanning their akc pedigrees. As far as Bella yes she is in heat and I am going to be breeding her shorter muzzle to rebels longer muzzle to hopefully
even out.
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Bruins_Boxer on June 05, 2012, 10:57:45 AM
There is a lot more to the conformation of a dog than just the pedigree .

Have you done the suggested health testing on BOTH of your dogs ?
Echo/doppler , holter monitor ,DM,  thyroid , hips ?

And just because she may have a shorter muzzle it does not mean she will pass along those traits . How many generations of the shorter muzzle is behind her ?
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Hickoryrockkenn on June 05, 2012, 11:19:38 AM
Somebody was asking about who I got them from so I figured a pedigree would answer that but my scanner is acting up the one time I need it of course lol. As far as testing goes I have been talking things over with my vet. I hope people are not taking me as a fly by night type of guy looking to get rich off of my dogs. I have done a ton of research and reading but I have lots more to learn.
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Rubidawg on June 05, 2012, 11:32:06 AM
Conformation wise - they both seem to be very nice pets. And I mean that very nicely. We all have pets that do no conform to the standard as much as we'd like. My Rubi's muzzle is very long, she is tall and leggy, she has a flat front, a very weak topline, slopes at the croup, no rise of skull, lack of stop....I could go on. But, she is a very nice pet. I would not breed her.

As far as pedigree - I believe Claire was just referring to what kennel you got them from. A pedigree isn't necessary to answer that, so don't worry. Just curious if it's a kennel/breeder any of us are familiar with.

With regards to breeding - there are a lot of red flags here. If you have done the research, you would be familiar with the Code of Ethics by the American Boxer Club. A vet saying your pet is healthy, does not mean it abides by the code of ethics, which was put forth to better the breed and ensure that the boxers of the future have less chance of the health risks out there, as well as keeping with the standard we all love about our boxers. Before breeding, I'd recommend taking a look: http://americanboxerclub.org/ethics.html

Also, take a look at the health risks in that same link on the left. That will give you some insight on why we encourage breeding to better the breed by health testing, as well as making sure the breeding stock is of conformation standard and temperment.

While your two are very adorable boxers, I would not breed them. I'm trying to put this as  nicely as possible, so hopefully it comes across the way I intend it to. Our boxers face so many health risks and we are ending up with boxers that do not look like boxers. My Rubi came from parents that looked very much like you're two. What I got was what many people claim to be a boxer mix, and she has had a rough start with health issues. So, please familiarize yourself with the ABC and it's Code of Ethics, see the research done behind the health risks our breed faces, see the thought and process that goes into the breeders who take the time to show their dogs, have them professionally evaluated, know and understand their faults and what they mean, then they take the steps to ensure the proper testing is done prior to finding a stud/bitch to mate with. I always say that I would never be a breeder, I'd leave it to the professionals, as there is so much involved with making sure we keep the true nature our breed is intended to be. The backyard breeders out there are taking away from the hard work these breeders put into planning their breeding program and most importantly - to better the breed.

Welcome to BC!  I hope you take the time to read through some of the forums and see just how important this is to us. Also, I'm sure a moderator or admin will also ask that you be sure to read and understand the policy regarding breeders on the forum.
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: whitepupzoe on June 05, 2012, 11:36:57 AM
Very well said Dawn.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: BoxerPerson on June 05, 2012, 11:45:59 AM
Ditto Dawn.  I have 3 "wonderfully" bred rescues (but all terribly loved and spoiled), all with their "pedigrees and papers...and not one is worthy of breeding, let alone putting into a conformation ring.

If you are planning on breeding your two without doing the health testing (thyroid, heart, DM to name a few) then you are no better than a backyard breeder. I don't want to offend you or scare you from this site, because there is so much you can learn from the people here. I am so passionate about this because I have been rescuing this breed since 1984, but have had them since the early 60's.  I have had some gorgeous pups and some that look very much like the 2 you have.  I love this breed.  But mine all were bred like you plan on doing and all of them found their way to me, because of a variety of reasons.  Either they were tossed, going to be tossed or at a pound.  PLEASE do your research on health testing and do not breed these 2.
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: DoubleTrouble on June 05, 2012, 02:12:12 PM
They are cuties for sure and I see that you know you won't get "rich" from breeding them so do you mind if I ask why you are breeding them? Since Bella is in heat now are you breeding them in this season? And what will happen with the puppies that are produced?
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: BoxerWB on June 05, 2012, 03:03:50 PM
With your dogs both being pretty young, I would suggest looking at the resources that people have offered and learning as much as you can.  If you still want to breed them after you've learned about the genetic health issues, pedigree research, etc - you'll still have time.  But chances are that once you've learned more about the breed standard and health testing, you'll want to wait until you have better examples of the breed.  Keep in mind that breeding bad to better doesn't make better - it makes mediocre.  Since breeding should be done to better the breed, you want to start with the best you are able and work up.

Many of us have started with Boxers that were very good pets but not at all appropriate for breeding.  Even my new baby, Delta, is not going to be bred despite being from very good lines with health testing and longevity behind them.  She's got a great temperament, but some of her siblings had the temperament and were a better example of their parent's conformation strengths.

Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Hickoryrockkenn on June 06, 2012, 01:30:03 PM
Let me first start off by saying WOW im a bit overwhelmed. Secondly let me say I understand very much so that we do not need more dogs in our shelters. I have a love and passion for all dogs and keeping dogs out of the pound and promoting the release from dog jail is something I will always do. As far as testing goes I never said I wont be testing my dogs I was saying I talked over the tests I wanted to do with my vet. She told me she couldnt certify their hips but could check for hip dysplasia. I must say I do respect each and everyone of you because it is all about the dogs and whats best for them. I did state that bella was in heat but does not mean I was going to breed her this heat. All of the pics I have shown are a bit old as I have lost my battery charger for my camera. As for my plans I am sure everyone will have a problem with me saying this but I really like what the dogs looked like in the early 1900s. Just as you have stated though when you breed isnt it a crap shoot on what you will get. Just because you breed the top dogs doesnt mean you will get a champion dog. Im sure thats stepping out of line by saying that but the amount I have been around champion breeders  thats what I gather. That doesnt mean I feel you can just breed anything to anything no but there are things I do see in each one of my dogs that I like. Here is a picture of what I think looks attractive to me. Which for all I know could be impossible to try to get back there. Thanks everyone for all the input and thanks for not scaring me off..... completely lol.
(http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i448/HickoryRockKennels/boxercirca1900.jpg)
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Rubidawg on June 06, 2012, 03:28:18 PM
I'm not really sure why you would want to breed back to that? That is not today's boxer and does not conform to the standards of today's boxer. It looks more pitty/cane/boston to me. lol You would be going backwards on all the years spent in properly breeding to better the breed, that breeders have spent lifetimes on accomplishing.

I also don't think you truly understand what it would take to get back to that type of dog. It actually would require mixing another breed. And that is not a boxer. To breed fault to fault to hope to acheive that is not bettering the breed, or being a responsible breeder.

I also think that if that is the "look" you are going for, then you are going to end up putting your puppies in shelters. People want boxerss that look like boxers. They want goldens that look like goldens. What you would be selling would be mixed breeds, and there's plenty of those in the shelters.

Also, with regards to testing, certified specialists are the way to go to ensure you get the proper answers - not a vet looking at your dogs hips, or hearing for a heartbeat thru the stethescope. Holter, Echo, OFA Certification, Thyroid (Full T4) Panels, DM test kits, etc. Again, please read the links I provided for more information.

And I just want to throw this out there as well. You mention you are in a wheelchair and have spinabifida. I'm just curious if you'd be able to physically take of these puppies once they are on the ground? Whelping is not an easy task at all. Matter of fact, you could end up hanf feeding several of the puppies, could end up with a mother with pyometra and lose her, lots to consider even AFTER they get here. I've heard many horror stories from some very responsible breeders on what they've had to do to ensure that their puppies survive after birth. It's not easy.
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Hickoryrockkenn on June 06, 2012, 03:40:14 PM
wow everyones out to bash me thats ok.
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Rubidawg on June 06, 2012, 03:44:52 PM
Not bashing. Just asking. We are very passionate about bettering this breed, not falling backwards. Many of us have had to deal with poor health, had to deal with rescue issues, finding homes for the ones that are no longer wanted. I'd love for you to stick around, get to know us and understand where we are coming from. You may learn a few things and have a better understanding of what it takes.

Again, not bashing, as I said in my first response, I hope you understand that none of us are trying to offend you - tones in messages can be translated very differently. So, no bashing.....just asking. ;)
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Christina on June 06, 2012, 03:51:37 PM
That picture looks just like my neighbors pittie. If that's the type of dog you like, they have cane corsos, which are bigger, and pitt bulls which can come in any size depending on the breeder.

There are so many things that can go wrong with a litter, hip dysplasia is really minor compared to other things. Have you seen the rescue thread recently on a young boxer that only has a few months to live due to a heart problem? I believe it's Trace. Magoo is another one that has a heart defect. DM is another disease that is extremely painful to watch a dog go through.  It's  just a simple genetic test. I've got a boy that has HD, spondylosis literally from mid-back to his tail, he tore his cruciates at less than a year old, and he bloated at 2 years old. But, he's beautiful on the outside!


Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Hickoryrockkenn on June 06, 2012, 05:27:28 PM
I am sorry its just that being in a wheelchair all my life ive had challenges. I just jumped the gun not thinking you dont know what my limitations are and what they are not. I am in a wheelchair but I can pretty much do everything everyone else can just in a different way. What I lack with my legs I have gained the power in my arms and upper body. I am able to stand and do transfers from my chair to my car, I am able to drive just fine. I want to back up for just a second and tell everyone I have a huge amount of respect for all the people on here and I hate coming across as someone who isnt educated. Educated to the fullest extent I might not be but the desire to learn I must say I score a 10 at. As for the cane corsos, pitbulls and presa yes they are good looking dogs. You guys can correct me if I am wrong didnt all of them start off as a Molosser breed? I just find that in the early 1900s the boxer looked more attractive to me and If you feel i would be trying to attempt to reverse someones hard work them I will respectfully back down from that desire.
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Rubidawg on June 06, 2012, 05:33:24 PM
I don't think you've come across as uneducated, I think there is just much more to learn. We all started out somewhere and I can honestly say that I've learned more from the people on this forum in the past 7 years I've been a member, than I've learned from any vet or person off the street. I grew up with dogs as well, so there's just much to gain from taking a step back and learning from the group. I am curious if you've taken a look at the links I 'provided in your other thread about your Rebel? That is just a small step in willing to learn more.

As for your limitations, I apologize if my question came off offensive. As I said, I'm not trying to offend and tones can be thwarted one way or another. However, also understand that I do not know you and what your limitations are. I was simply just curious if whelping a litter of puppies would be stressful on you - perhaps that's how I should have put it or perhaps that's none of my business. But, when I think of a litter being born and know many who have had lots of problems with them, I know I'd not be able to handle it. lol But again, I apologize if there was any implication other than just hoping that your disease wouldn't hold back from proper care of a litter.

With regards to what you desire, that's completely up to you as well. However, that does not look like today's boxer and I wouldn't call it one. Yes, they all start somewhere and it takes those dogs to get to the breed we love.

I ask that you realize that many people come on here frequently with the desire to breed, so we hear the same thing quite a bit -
I want one like my Sammy
I want my child to experience the circle of birth
I want to make money
I just love the boxer so much, why not
My friends love my dog and they want one
...the list actually goes on and on. Many people come here and think it's as easy as taking a boy and a girl and letting them go to down over dinner and a movie (lol) and then the puppies come and the momma takes care of them and then I sell them. It's our goal to help others understand that it's far more than that. Way more than that! I have the utmost respect for the breeders on this forum and for what they put into their breeding program - the research, the studies, the evaluations by professional judges, the health certifications, traveling miles and miles across the country to find the proper match for their dog/bitch, hoping they get the puppy they want out of the litter, being disappointed when they dont, or having a litter of stillborns, or having a litter of all females when they wanted a male, or having a litter of all whites which can't be bred so it's no use to their breeding program and they have to find pet homes, or the follow-up tests and vet checks once the pups are here to make sure that all are healthy, nursing the pups that are weaker and get kicked off of momma, supplements to ensure their immune systems are increased so they will survive.

Again, the list goes on and on. I continue to encourage you to read through the forum, read through the American Boxer Club links I've provided, ask some of our breeders what they've put into breeding their dogs. I think you'd be surprised by how much there really is to learn about breeding properly, whelping, and making sure you find the best homes for those pups.

I do truly apologize if you've found my questions offensive or out of line, but do understand I have a passion for this breed as well and am only looking out for them as I've learned.....if we don't fight for them, nobody will.  ;)

And to go back to your original question about Rebel, since we are getting off topic - I still think he is a very nice pet.
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Hickoryrockkenn on June 06, 2012, 06:30:55 PM
Thank you so very much for taking the time to put it like that it truly means a lot to me. I can fully understand you wanting to discourage most who doesn't have what it takes to breed. The breed I'm sure thanks you. Right now as we speak I am cooking a pork tenderloin for my dogs lol nice little treat for them. As for me being in a wheelchair it's just a condition I was born with it won't be getting any better or worse just the pain levels go up and down. That's what I personally love about dogs they don't care that I'm hurting they still will encourage me getting up and taking them for a walk.  As for links I haven't read them just yet but I promise you I will read each and everyone. Also I have a question I would like to ask everyone. Is it fairly common to find a boxer that is as "bully" as Bella is. She is wide and short and very thick IMO. I take a lot of pride in my dogs as do probably each and everyone on here. I have been training rebel to be my service dog which is a plus to being in a wheelchair lol. Thanks for everyone's patience I am here for the long haul. I will respectfully open my eyes and hope to learn from all the great people on here if that's ok with everyone.
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: BoxerWB on June 06, 2012, 06:44:03 PM
Keep in mind that to be a responsible breeder, per the ABC, you are breeding to the standard - today's standard.  You also mentioned possibly showing dogs and again, you'd be looking at today's standard.  I have to wonder how a breed judge would react to a dog that looked that way coming into the ring as a Boxer.  In order to better a breed, everyone needs to be using the same measuring stick.  There may be minor variations on how one interprets the current standard, but the basics are the same and give you consistency.

Breeding is a crapshoot, but part of that is not knowing how traits will express themselves in the progeny.  I can't think of hearing about a champion bred from real "pet quality" dogs like yours, even though there are plenty of pet pups coming from champions.  Although I'd say a lot of pet pups coming from well-bred litters are really just a shade or two off from their siblings.  Breeders can evaluate their litter and choose conformation pups that are expressing their lineage in the best way possible.

And of course, all this doesn't even touch on the health considerations.  Are you able to find out the longevity of the lines for both your dogs, since I suspect they don't have the genetic testing behind them.  Can you find out what the dogs from those lines are dying of? Are there injuries or cancers that come up repeatedly amongst the lines?  Having two young, currently healthy dogs is only the tip of the iceberg when considering health for breeding.

As for Bella - it's common to find a lot of variation among "pet" bred dogs.  I know there are a couple pet dogs here who are more wide and stocky and "bully" than the norm.  I have yet to see that build in a well bred Boxer, even in ones that tend towards more bone and muscle.
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: BoxerPerson on June 06, 2012, 06:55:44 PM
In answer to your current question, yes, you do find boxers that are more "bully", that is because the breeder was not one that bred to the standards.  I lost my Goofy :angel: almost 2 years ago, he was huge! 102 pounds at his best (actually worse, but his heaviest) and I have Phoebe who is a tiny girl (Phoebe) at 44 pounds being a bit pudgy.  Again, all 3 of my current boxers are rescues whose parentage was, at best, either a BYB (Willlie & Snookie) or puppy mill (Phoebe).  I have had boxers with papers that look like bully boxers, dane boxers, American bulldog boxers, pitty boxers and yes I have even had boxer boxers LOL. Heck I have had them all! BUT, I rescue my pups, and I don't expect to breed or show them since they do not represent what a boxer should look like.  they have that wonderful boxer temperament, but they fall short of conforming to the boxer look. I also am taking on a crap shoot as to their health.  I have lost one to DM, 2 to cancer, 1 to kidney failure & 1 to heart issues.

If I was to purchase a boxer, it would be from someone that bred according to the ABC and be a pup that resembles the breed standard, had parents that were health tested and the pup.  

Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Newcastle on June 07, 2012, 10:47:07 AM
You've gotten some good advice here and I hope you take it to heart. One thing to mention is that in the 1900s, the breeders of the time knew the dogs they had were *not* ideal representations of the breed. They were a work-in-progress, evolving from the generic Bullenbeisser/Barenbeisser ancestors to the Boxer we know today. If the dog in the photo you posted is your ideal, you really want an American Staffordshire Terrier -- that breed is much closer to the look you like than Boxers are.

As far as health testing goes, the reason we "harp" on it here is that the health problems to which Boxers are prone can have devastating effects on the puppies, from severe itching and allergies (where the skin is scratched raw) to a lifetime of pain to dogs dropping dead at 2 years old. Testing can't guarantee every puppy produced will live a long, healthy, problem-free life, but it dramatically increases the odds. Trust me when I tell you that it is devastating to get a call from one of your puppy buyers to let you know their dog died at a young age -- I can't begin to imagine how much more awful it would be if the dog had died from something you very well could have prevented by testing the parents. So as you're reading and learning, please keep that in mind -- it's about the dogs, always, and giving the puppies you produce the very best chance at a long, happy, healthy life.
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Hickoryrockkenn on June 07, 2012, 11:34:12 AM
I can imagine that hearing something I created got sick due to not wanting to test. Right now rebel has a bump between his toes. I am debating on taking him to the vet over it. I don't feel that it is allergies but not sure.
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: aquagirl900 on June 07, 2012, 11:01:05 PM
bumps could mean mast cell tumour..very common in boxers...
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Hickoryrockkenn on June 08, 2012, 05:42:25 PM
Just got out of the vets they took a sample and looked at it under microscope. Luckily it was just an infection and he's got clindamycin and rimadyl
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Hickoryrockkenn on June 10, 2012, 01:29:19 AM
I have been doing a lot of reading and research ESP about muzzle length. I was curious as to what people here felt was correct is the muzzle supposed to be 1/2 or 1/3 the size of the head? Today I did my best to look at reference pictures of how to measure. Both of my pups seemed to measure 1/2 I just hope I measured right. If I get a better side shot of both of them could someone give me some thoughts please? Thanks
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: BoxerPerson on June 10, 2012, 07:01:35 AM
I think from what I have seen of Rebel, his muzzle is too long.  Just by your avatar picture I see this. 
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: fairview Boxers on June 10, 2012, 08:25:51 AM
I recommend finding a reputable breeder(s) relatively near you, that you can talk with frequently and get insight from.  A panel of people is even really helpful.  I only ask questions of people I trust, which isn't many people!  I have owned Boxers for 12 years, and been breeding for 8.  I am just now getting comfortable with my judgment on structure.  It takes time to learn these things!  Time and help!  Which you can find here!  The Boxer people on this board are wonderful, MANY have been through heartbreak over the loss of a beloved Boxer due to the health issues in the breed, that is why they are so passionate! 
If you truly want to breed, the best thing to do is buy the best foundation you can from health tested parents.  From a breeder that you have researched and spoke with several times, or one that was referred to you by a breeder you have a "friendship" with.  I jumped into the Boxer world of showing and breeding before I was mentally ready, and it has taken me a long time (and a lot of heartache), and starting COMPLETELY over with my breeding program to be comfortable! 
A good place to start is an All breed club local to you, and a Boxer club local to you.  Those will give you great foundations for learning! :)
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Christina on June 10, 2012, 12:24:05 PM
Here's the AKC website and the breed standard. This is what breeders strive for, and have worked for such a long time to create.  It states in there that "the blunt muzzle is 1/3 the length of the head from the occiput to the tip of the nose, and 2/3rds the width of the skull. "

http://www.akc.org/breeds/boxer/

There's more on the body type, back, neck, chest, head, basically what you should be breeding towards.
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Hickoryrockkenn on June 10, 2012, 12:44:19 PM
Thanks everyone
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: BranwenBoxers on June 10, 2012, 05:45:45 PM
Also here is another link that I love to study .

http://worldwideboxer.com/   

Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: jinxx on June 10, 2012, 05:50:06 PM
hey, I was JUST going to post that link

also take a look at the Canadian standard- sometimes slightly different wording of the same thing can make for a better understanding

take your time to learn and understand
you don't have to start with the boxers you currently have
Its best to start with the absolute best you can
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Christina on June 10, 2012, 05:56:22 PM
I was looking at your website, you can't read the pedigrees, at least I can't.  I don't know about others. Just curious, but do you have any American bullies? You reference several other kennels, just curious if you had one. I think they're great dogs too, you mentioned in another post you had 4 dogs.
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Hickoryrockkenn on June 10, 2012, 06:06:55 PM
I don't have any American bullies because of that reason not wanting to rush anything I want to get the best I can. My other two dogs were rescued off a turkey farm my dad used to work on. The man had over 20 dogs there none fed properly they mainly live off the dead turkeys tossed out after they die. They are bear hounds a mix between a walker and maybe a red tick not really sure I have a video of one it's old he was just going to be a foster at the time but we love him. I know a few American bully breeders I want to get my foundation dogs from they are listed on my links. They have taken the year off so I just have to wait. Thanks for checking out my website it means a lot to me.
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Christina on June 10, 2012, 06:22:02 PM
Never heard of a bear hound, but I've got an ancient walker hound named Boomer. He was at least 10 years old 5 years ago. There's pics and video in the "other pets" section
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Hickoryrockkenn on June 10, 2012, 06:39:22 PM
Bear hounds are just what the locals call them lol. They are just like a red tick hound. I'll take a look for the pic. Off topic question but does the akc allow white boxers being bred? I thought they could only have limited registration?
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Rubidawg on June 10, 2012, 06:57:11 PM
No, it against the Code of Ethics for the American Boxer Club to breed whites.
http://www.americanboxerclub.org/ethics.html
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: BoxerWB on June 10, 2012, 07:44:52 PM
The AKC allows any full registration dog of any breed to be bred - they are only a registering agency, not a control of quality.  The ABC is the parent club of the Boxer breed and the ones who dictate what is ethical or not in the breed.  A person could not breed whites and be in compliance with the ABC Code of Ethics, but plenty of people who breed don't give a hoot about the ABC (or even know who they are) and use AKC "papers" as a mark of quality.
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Hickoryrockkenn on June 12, 2012, 12:48:48 PM
I know everyone has told me that my dogs wont hold up well in the ring, but I found a show coming up in Sept in my hometown of Chesapeake Va. I have emailed them to see if I could enter it with being in a wheelchair would that be a problem. They said there would be no problem. He did however say me and my dog would have to meet some eligibility requirements anyone know what this may be? The reason I'd like to do this for one there's personal reasons being a wheelchair and handling and showing a dog not sure if its ever been done before. Also I would like to get some experience, like I've said I don't really want to stop working with dogs I want to grow wiser and have more experience. One last question to you guys being that rebels muzzle is too long should I show bella or would it not really matter cause they are both equally wrong standards lol? Thanks everyone and I know I've been just asking all sorts of questions recently and I am very thankful for everyone's comments and info. :thumbsup: ;D :yes: :beam:
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: BoxerWB on June 12, 2012, 03:19:13 PM
I am guessing the eligibility would be that the dog is AKC registered, intact, and you are in good standing w/the AKC (basically you don't owe them money or didn't get reported breaking a rule).  That is what I needed to start doing Obedience showing w/my pup, minus the intact part since they don't care about sexual status in performance events.

I think either dog would be a learning experience and since you aren't entering to win, I would take whichever dog you believe will manage better with crowds, lots of strange dogs, possible hot weather, etc.  Shows are busy places, frequently very crowded and, while they are generally in control, not all dogs there are dog-dog friendly.  

Have you ever been to a show before? If not, try to visit one before the show in September just to get a feel for what it can be like.
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: jinxx on June 12, 2012, 03:26:02 PM
ditto Julia
I'd start to learn the process at handling classes and go dogless to the shows until you have a better understanding
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Hickoryrockkenn on June 12, 2012, 03:56:39 PM
Ya exactly what I was thinking I'd do too. I got plans to attend one in Winchester va July 14th. Oh ya I've never been to a dog show so hence why I'm going to one first like you suggested. I gotta work with the dog I want to take he can be a bit jumpy at times. Like when he's sleeping and I want to get him off the chair/recliner. Also if I grab his feet he pulls em away so I just need to work with him. I'm sure most people who started training late know that if you have trained your dog basics you pull out the treat bag and it's an auto sit lol. So I've had to teach him "up" to stand on command he's doing great with that . He's just not a fan of his back legs being stretched back...yet but well get there.
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: SaharaNight Boxers on June 12, 2012, 05:01:14 PM
I've only been showing for a year, but I have studied the Boxer for years. I also have great mentors and decent eye for what a dog has. (I'm one of those people that has to have balance and can always tell if something's off)

The fact that you have him listed as "your stud" on your kennel page worries me. I can tell his muzzle is too long too and something is off with his angulation of his back legs to me. My boy now may never breed if he doesn't pass his health testing. Until he does I won't have him as a stud anywhere.

The main thing that really scares me is that your ideal Boxer is not a Boxer. The Boxer back in the 1920s was still being developed. Something like that is not what they wanted, they were breeding away from it and improving it.

 If you go out to a show in Virginia I can just about promise you won't get anything. Quite a few kennels down there breed nice dogs. They are probably not show quality so I'd say spay and neuter these guys, get a good dog from a good breeder around you, and start from there. If you go down and say hey I going to breed these guys because I think they're nice I don't think most are going to help you. One thing I've learned, irresponnsible breeders are definitely looked own upon.

You also said he is jumpy. A Boxer shouldn't be jumpy. They should face fear and have confidence...it's all in the standard.

Trust me I know where you are coming from. I didn't get Duke from a show breeder sadly. His dad has fantastic lines behind him, some of the healthiest I've found and his mother is a nice dog. The whole litter was a nice bunch conformation wise. I just found show Boxers, compared him to them an we went from there. if he wasn't a good enough Boxer he was going to end up being my Juniors dog probably. I would just have to realize he wasn't good enough. I guess I'm just saying sometimes fate happens and you get lucky, don't say you are lucky if you aren't. Just because you think something about them doesn't make it true.
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: BoxerPerson on June 12, 2012, 05:32:52 PM
I also stopped at your site...I see that Rebel still has his dew claws. This tells me he came from a breeder that is not responsible or reputable.  Dews are always removed from a quality dog/bitch.  Another thing that has me wondering about your intentions is that you had no idea that white boxers are not to be bred...PERIOD.

Quote
The main thing that really scares me is that your ideal Boxer is not a Boxer. The Boxer back in the 1920s was still being developed. Something like that is not what they wanted, they were breeding away from it and improving it.
I totally agree.  If the boxer was to look like the picture you posted, they would not look like the boxer of today with standards that state they should look like they do.  PLEASE - Before going any further with these two, please get these two fixed.  They are great pets for you, but they do not represent what the breed is to look like, and they came from lines that are at best, questionable.
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Christina on June 12, 2012, 07:30:51 PM
I really don't understand why you would wait for good foundation stock from reputable breeders for American bullies, but not do the same for boxers.

I'm not trying to attack you, no one here is, like others have said, we all love the breed and want to see it improve. There are breeders that frequently
 lose money on breedings because of all the testing, maintenance, and rearing of the puppies.  That's what being a responsible breeder is about, people spend a lot of time researching what sire/dam would be a good match to produce the best offspring.

Just because a dog has AKC papers, doesn't mean that it needs to be bred. All the AKC means is that the dog has this sire/dam and was born on this date. There are too many dogs in shelters and being euthanized because people are saying, ohh, my dogs pretty, I want him/her to have puppies. 

Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Hickoryrockkenn on June 13, 2012, 01:25:47 AM
Not sure what you mean by this?

I guess I'm just saying sometimes fate happens and you get lucky, don't say you are lucky if you aren't. Just because you think something about them doesn't make it true.
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: aquagirl900 on June 13, 2012, 09:40:15 AM
I think he means that he got lucky with his dog...good quality/form, whereas your dogs have poor form/heads/noses and you'll have to start fresh for show dogs/breeding stock?
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: SaharaNight Boxers on June 13, 2012, 10:03:16 AM
First off, none of this is intended in a mean way. Boxers are my absolute passion, I love everything about them! And I almost made a horrible decision with breeding Duke and then saw what still happened after so it's more personal to me.

Sort of. I'm trying to say don't think I'm so lucky, my dog is good quality, I can show him this must be what fate or what I'm supposed to do. I'm just saying don't let that fuel your idea of being able to breed and show. Don't make them what they aren't.

And just as a side note I didn't intend that in any cocky way about Duke. He's a great dog, but there's always things to improve on.

And just as a question @Hickoryrockkennels, what do you know about healthtesting? You say you've done tons of research, but I don't understand how after hours, days, or months of research you haven't realized how important it is. You also mentioned you asked your vet about it. Again, I would think if you knew about it you would figure out your normal or casual vet probably won't have all the stuff for it.

And other thing that scares me is that you never said how old Bella is. Please never breed a puppy, babies shouldn't produce babies.

And looking at that picture it says "cane corso" i don't even think that's a Boxer looking at it. I don't think they would ever dock a tail that low. That's more of a Cane Corso dock.
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Hickoryrockkenn on June 13, 2012, 12:43:29 PM
This doesn't need to be talked about anymore
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Hickoryrockkenn on June 13, 2012, 02:58:50 PM
You know I thought about it and thought about it and I really should have the right to defend myself. Who said I didn't know how old bella was? She will be 2 years old in 4 days thats 6/17/2010. If you did look at my website it says just that. Ive read what people say about your dog and it has faults they might feel it looks a lot better than mine but so be it. If i was to sit here and tell you to get it fixed you think you would take that too kindly? I am no idiot and I do not appreciate being talked down to. I was warned of how the people who breed akc show boxers can be. She also told me about how some boxers came up "missing" during a show one year. I have had rebel looked at by a boxer breeder who does very well in the show ring. I was told then all of his faults. Its one thing to pass on advice and comments and its another to just completely treat somebody horrible. I keep hearing about health testing nowhere did I say that I would not be testing my dogs. I have said I have talked it over with my vet. Last time I checked I haven't had any puppies nor have I bred her during this last heat. I am extremely concerned with health of my dogs. Knowing boxers are number one for having cancer I did my research and found out that you can cut back some of the chances of them getting cancer from their food. Ive made mistakes when I first got them and got wrapped up in the corn food everyone tries to sell today. I mostly cook my dogs food and add it to halo dry food. Which my research says its the best food to fight against cancer. Also I walk my dogs just about everyday sometimes twice a day. In fact rebel is one of the fastest boxers I've ever seen he can run a little over 30 mph. He also can run 15mph for at least 6 miles. So I do take great care of my dogs no matter if they are just pets or dogs being bred they are wonderful dogs. You seem to care about the dogs in the shelters do you have any adopted dogs yourself? Do you go to the shelters and volunteer or bring them toys and food? I might not have a whole lot of money being disabled but what I do have I put a lot into animals. You really don't know me or my character to be passing so much judgement its not appreciated well just say that much.
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Christina on June 13, 2012, 03:29:21 PM
You seem to care about the dogs in the shelters do you have any adopted dogs yourself? Do you go to the shelters and volunteer or bring them toys and food? I might not have a whole lot of money being disabled but what I do have I put a lot into animals. You really don't know me or my character to be passing so much judgement its not appreciated well just say that much.

Yeah, actually out of my 7 dogs, 5 of them are adopted or rescued. Want me to list them to prove it? Here you go... Boomer 15+ year old walker hound adopted in 2007. Penelope 7 year old gsd mix, rescued by my brother in 2005, currently lives with me, Lucky, 8 year old boxer, adopted from the humane society in 2006, Jasmine, 4 year old mutt, adopted in 2008 from a shelter that I volunteer with, have been for almost 10 years! Abel, 1 year old hound mix that showed up under my porch from the neighbor's house. I also have Daisy and Star who are boxers.

As I said above, I've volunteered with a rescue organization for many years doing everything from scooping sh&*, feeding dogs, giving meds, vetting dogs, immunizations, building kennels, working with feral dogs, training dogs, and anything else under the sun.

I also worked in a high volume kill shelter and saw litters of puppies picked through and some euthanized just because they weren't "cute enough"!  Have you ever even seen a dog euthanized just because it wasn't cute enough? Ever even looked into the eyes of an innocent animal and had to say,  I'm sorry, buddy, today's just not your day. I don't think so. Why don't you try rolling down the other side of the fence at your local kill shelter and seeing just how many dogs are there waiting to die because someone just had to breed their "pretty dogs".

Any questions?
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: SaharaNight Boxers on June 13, 2012, 03:44:02 PM
Who said I didn't know how old bella was?

I meant I didn't know old she was, I found it on your website after.

If you told me a good reason to get Duke fixed I would. if I wasn't showing him he might be fixed (I believe in keeping them unnetured for health reasons). Like I said before I mean none of this in a rude way, only in a helpful way. I would never talk down on someone asking for help. It's just when people get help and info an seem to discard it.

As far as healthtesting, you said she's in heat now and you were going to breed her and Rebel because she has a short nose and he has a long nose. You never said you health tested them. Here's a link for healthtesting-http://americanboxerclub.org/health-screening.html And may I ask why you asked about breeding white Boxers?

And trust me, I have met some people who are pretty terrible people at dog shows. I promise you I am not one of those, I only want to learn at shows. I would never put anyone down. You never know when you might need them! And I've heard about some pretty messed up stuff, missing dogs, poisoned dogs I can''t believe anyone would ever do that.

Now as far as me caring about the shelter dogs yes it breaks my heart, but how do you think they end up there? People breed willy nilly and dogs en up there. Most dogs in shelters now are purebreds. Duke is my first dog so I've never adopted a shelter dog. I have to admit I'm pretty much addicted to Juniors and showing that I pretty much only want dogs to show. I would always help to foster and get dogs out of shelters, but I don't know if I'd want to adopt one completely. Plus, you never know what health issues can come up and we're already pretty tight here.

As far as their diet I commend you. We're starting raw soon as I believe it's the best. I'm glad you've found homecooking I think it's great too.

The only thing I kind of don't get is that you mention how he can run. I just don't get that part. I'm glad he's fit, but what are you trying to say? Those dogs that get their AD title have to way more of the same thing. I think it's like twenty miles(??) I forget right now.

Now off of that sure, why don't you take him to a show get him evaluated by many more, take some handling classes. The eligibility requirements are these:

Disabled Exhibitors Policy: AKC complies with the Americans With Disabilities Act and wants to provide to all the opportunity to participate in its events. In the case of conformation judging, where decisions are based solely on the quality of the dogs, the judge may modify the regular judging procedure to reasonably accommodate a disabled exhibitor.
If a modification of normal judging procedure is required, you need only to determine that the accommodation would not inhibit the ability of other handlers in the ring to show their dogs. A disabled handler may compete using a cane, crutch, or electric-powered wheelchair. However, when gaiting the dogs as a group, you should ensure that a handler who cannot maintain a normal gait for the breed being exhibited be placed in line where it will not interfere with the ability of the other dogs to gait properly.

That is straight from AKC.

If you put him in an actual stack someone might evaluate him on here.
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: DoubleTrouble on June 13, 2012, 03:46:32 PM
Rebel will be 3 years old in a few days. Please tell me what you think hes 72lbs (last weighted) and 26 inches tall. All input welcomed, hes not been in a show yet being in a wheelchair makes it a tad harder to show him but I still would like to. :thumbsup: Thanks.
www.hickoryrockkennels.com

I do believe that you were the one that asked for our opinions...sorry you don't like what you hear but you did ask and when you ask you are going to her what people think....
You are being given very good advice here...advice that is best for not only your dogs but the entire breed...I only hope you will take it to heart. Your dogs are not show dogs nor breeding material and everyone here is trying very nicely to tell you that. I am sorry you are offended but you asked for opinions and folks are giving you their honest ones.
Oh and by the way if you want to talk about dogs in shelters, you just let me know because every spare dime of money I have and every spare minute of my time goes to saving as many as possible that have been bred by and sold to irresponsible people.
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Hickoryrockkenn on June 13, 2012, 04:04:39 PM
I am with you on that I have found that getting a dog fixed at early ages can have its health risk. Yea I agree I asked for it and I think I've took it pretty well. I am not trying to start a problem here. I was interested in breeding them yes hence why I put a website up before bella was even 2 years old. I did that to get interest because I don't want to pop out babies and they end up at the pound. BTW I would keep the puppies before I brought them to the pound. I must say I am hugely reconsidering breeding them two. If I decide to breed them they might not end up in the show ring but they would be great family pets. Before I bred I would do health tests the last thing Id want is to make some sick puppies. The vet that i spoke about testing said that even after you do the halter testing they can have heart problems. So the way i was explained its just not a sure fact that they wont have heart issues. Please tell me what everyone feels about this if they don't mind As far as me talking about the walks I was just saying that I try to keep him healthy that's all. I read about your guy being a bit chunky or whatever term was used that wasn't a jab at you in anyway. In fact rebel looked like that when he was younger. You'll wake up one day and be like WOW what happened its crazy lol. Thanks for the post about disabled exhibitors policy i appreciate it. Like most people on here im sure I take a lot of pride in my dogs so I just got a bit upset to read all these negitive things but yep I asked for it.
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Rubidawg on June 13, 2012, 04:18:52 PM
With regards to health testing, it's been stated that NOTHING is a 100% guarantee. However, by performing these tests, you greatly reduce the risk of these popping up within our breed....as long as you are breeding healthy dogs to healthy dogs.

For instace, my Grady, came from a responsible breeder who did all the right tests (she's actually a member of this forum). He ended up having a Grade 2 murmur - which is really not horrible at all, it's innocent and didn't impeed on his quality of life. Unfortunately, he died 3 weeks ago at the age of 4 years old from cancer. However, not all dogs end up like this and the goal with health testing is to try to avoid the health issues from happening at all. (it's a goal, not a guarantee)

When you breed responsibly, it goes much further than just health tests. There never is a guarantee, but you do what you can to ensure that an entire litter and future litters don't end up with far more serious health risks. My Rubi, bred from a BYB (backyard breeder aka irresponsible breeder who just bred their two dogs together to produce pet boxers) has hip dysplasia and was diagnosed at 6 months. She is an orthopedic nightmare and now at 7 years old, she can no longer sit. She has to either stand or lay down because of her condition.

Responsbile breeding is more than just health tests. It's knowing the pedigree and knowing the lines to which you are breeding and ensuring they from come from healthy parents for many generations back. What did they die of? At what age? What about other litters produced? Were they all healthy?  Responsbile breeders spends months (sometimes YEARS) researching pedigrees and trying to find a stud/bitch to compliment each other, "hope" to breed out faults, and then at that point....pray that you get what you want.

So, with regards to holter tests, it goes much deeper than that. Also, the best way to determine a heart condition is via ECHO. Holter helps with some conditions, but an echocardiogram is done my a specialist and can read deeper for ARVC, etc.  Grady was diagnosed with his mumur via ECHO, but was also holtered at 2 years old to check for PVCs and blood flow.

Nothing is ever fool-proof, but the point of these tests go towards (again) "bettering" the breed and doing what you can to try to avoid these conditions that plague this breed. It also goes MUCH deeper than that and includes researching the pedigrees you have, knowing the story behind each dog, how long they lived, what did they die of, what have they produced for several generations. That can take years to work through.

Also, there are more tests than just holter, so take a look at the links provided for all the information.
ECHO - cardiomyopathy
Hips - OFA certified to ensure no hip dysplasia
Thyroid - Full T4 panel to ensure thyroid is not an issue
DM - test to see if degenerative myopathy is in the genes
...just to name a few
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Hickoryrockkenn on June 13, 2012, 04:27:53 PM
I am so very sorry for your loss my prayers go out to you.
Thank you for that valuable info great post.
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Rubidawg on June 13, 2012, 04:35:01 PM
I am so very sorry for your loss my prayers go out to you.
Thank you for that valuable info great post.
Thanks. He lived a wonderful life, so there are never any regrets for what he went through. And we were far more blessed than anyone to have had him in our lives. ;)

I'd also like to point out, as I think it's helpfull - take a look at my signature, you can see the difference of a responsibly bred dog from a nice pedigree (Grady) to a dog not responsbily bred (Rubi), bred from 2 parents that did not fit the standard and you can tell what a big difference they have in looks. I get asked often if Rubi is purebred or if she's part pit, part greyhoud, whatever.  ::) Her pedigree says boxer, her parents were boxers (albeit not to standard), but she looks VERY different than Grady did. It's quite possible there is another breed somewhere within her pedigree or because the breeders who bred their dogs to get to Rubi, weren't careful in choosing complimentary dogs and bred fault to fault - allowing those faults to naturally progress. Her muzzle is long. She's taller than the standard. She lacks forechest. Weak Rear. No rise of skull (think I already went into that somewhere, lol), but because they weren't choosey in breeding type to type, we got a dog that is questionable. Don't get me wrong. We love that lil sh!t to pieces, lol. She's a GREAT dog, full of boxer personality and has been a symbol for us to ensure that breedings like her (health issues and lack of breed type) don't happen anymore.
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: SaharaNight Boxers on June 13, 2012, 04:38:51 PM
Now we're all friendly ;D information can be shared.

The one thing I do want to say though is that you said if you breed they would make great pets. The same goes for those dogs in the shelter. Don't make them have to compete with dogs you bred. On a lot of breeders websites you'll see them saying on their litters page to look to rescue, some foster, some have adopted. Let your dogs be happy pets and let the shelter dogs get adopted! Win win for everyone!

 And you never know how Rebel could act after he gets bred. I've heard some dogs act completely different, some get focused only on girls and mating, some try to run away to get to girls, some distance themselves completely from people. You never know how he could change.

As far as the Am Bullies if you could find a responsible breeder somewhere, (They aren't recognized by AKC so I don't know where to look...UKC maybe) get well bred dogs, show them, health test them, and breed sure I see no problem. Same if you got a good little girl from a responsible Boxer breeder.
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Bruins_Boxer on June 13, 2012, 05:41:11 PM
As far as holter testing , yes it is not a guarantee that the dog will not have ARVC ( that is what the holter screens for) . But it CAN tell you if your dog does have ARVC .

My first boxer was shown in conformation had an obed title and I was approached to use him for stud . Back then holtering was new , many people did not believe in doing it . But I was asked by the bitch owner to test him so I did .

I found out that he had over 500 vpc's and there were some pairs & triplets . This told me ( by the cardiologist I later went to ) that he definately did have ARVC even though I never saw any of the typical signs .

He was later neutered and I started over and bought a show prospect from another trusted breeder.
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: BoxerPerson on June 13, 2012, 06:29:27 PM
What the world does not need now, is another breeder of PET puppies! I rescue and can attest there are so many pups that need homes.  PLEASE don't breed just to breed and just to breed more puppies that may or may not find a perfect home.
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: aquagirl900 on June 13, 2012, 07:01:54 PM
Another thing I want to point out, is that just because a dog is "pure" with papers doesn't mean they are true to the breed in appearance.  I have two boxers.  Jetta I got from  "breeder" and is AKC registered.  Bo I rescued from someone who kept him in a crate 16+ hours a day at 9 months old.  Bo has no papers.  Both dogs as much a mess (far from breed standard) as each other in spite of one having papers and one not.  In fact, I would have to say that Jetta, my papered dog is less to standard than Bo, my non papered dog. 


(http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u92/aquagirl900/Bo%20and%20Jetta/DSC_0934.jpg)

Not the best picture to judge dogs by, but you get the idea. Jetta is short, long nose, wide head, not many wrinkles, her back end is "off".  Bo has too long of a nose, roach back, long legs , tall but thin (still shorter than standard though).  Bo almost looks part greyhound to me..Jetta more pitty/bully to me.  Jetta looks more 'off" to me than Bo though neither are good examples of boxers.  Your Bella reminds me a bit of Jetta in her build.
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Hickoryrockkenn on June 14, 2012, 06:46:50 PM
Here's a pic I took last night of Bella with my Ipad so low quality. I cooked this chicken and some pork for them. I just thought id share it with everyone.

(http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i448/HickoryRockKennels/BellaBBQ.jpg)
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: SaharaNight Boxers on June 14, 2012, 07:58:26 PM
Ooh if you're seasoning the chicken and then giving it to them stop. I don't know what's I your seasonings, but that can really upset their tummies.
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Hickoryrockkenn on June 14, 2012, 08:13:36 PM
Nope nothing but chicken and fire no seasonings and oh ya and about an hour of deboning lol
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: SaharaNight Boxers on June 14, 2012, 08:18:16 PM
Oh ok it looked like the chicken on the grill was seasoned. It looks good!
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Hickoryrockkenn on June 14, 2012, 08:30:39 PM
Thanks I did some figuring though and it came out to be about $4/lb which I could buy chicken breast for that price and a lot less work and leaner oh well you learn something new each day. If you don't mind can you tell me what you think of Bella I realize she's not a show stopper just wondering what her faults are and who's closer to the standard. Thanks
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: SaharaNight Boxers on June 14, 2012, 08:40:26 PM
You have to put them in a stack first. It's hard to explain, but it makes them square. Like parking put for horses. Google it and try to find a video. And if you get headshots straight on and from the side someone can critique those too.
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: BoxerPerson on June 15, 2012, 07:10:10 AM
Lots of work homecooking, but oh so worth it! I use a pressure cooker, that way I do not have to debone...bones become very mushy (not sure if that is a word, but thats how they come out ;) )
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Hickoryrockkenn on June 15, 2012, 08:57:13 AM
Ya I've heard that before. I don't have a pressure cooker but I've cooked em in a crock pot then took the bones out and put it back in the crock pot. Then Im blessed with the wonderful worry mindset that I put the bones in a blender to make sure none are still hard lol. That's a lot of work though but always worth it to see them eat so well. Is it a typical boxer thing for boxers to not like kibble? I tried to feed rebel kibble with no soft one time and he lasted 5 days. I of course fed him a Lil something It about killed me but that was what everyone said to do.
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Christina on June 15, 2012, 10:31:05 AM
My guys will eat about anything that won't eat them first.  Star may get picky every once in a while, but Lucky would eat a to rock if someone tossed it to him. I have no trouble with kibble, I only add warm water to slow them down a little.
Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: Hickoryrockkenn on June 15, 2012, 11:57:32 PM
Hows this for a free stack LOL that's an alert pose. I'm working on stacking her I took your advice and watching some videos Thanks I love the great advice. :thumbsup:




(http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i448/HickoryRockKennels/DSC02447.jpg)


(http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i448/HickoryRockKennels/DSC02448.jpg)

Title: Re: Tell me what everyone thinks of my boy Rebel
Post by: SaharaNight Boxers on June 16, 2012, 12:15:55 AM
She's definitely got a thick build for a bitch. If you want to take a stacked shot you need to get it straight on, not from above.

It does seem like Rebel has a roach back and his hind angulation seems off.