Boxer Crazy

The Breed and Breeders => The Boxer Standard => Topic started by: Rubidawg on May 02, 2010, 06:05:54 PM

Title: Roachbacks...
Post by: Rubidawg on May 02, 2010, 06:05:54 PM
Grady has a lil bit of a roach to his back. It's easy to see in pics when he's just standing out in the yard, being relaxed. But, lately - especially during classes, when he's on "high alert" - I've noticed that when I get him to stand and he's really focussed on something, his topline looks nearly perfect.

If he's watching something in the yard, from the side, his back is perfectly straight. During class, when I put him in a stack/stand, because he's so busy watching everything, it seems like he straightens himself out. (but not if I try to get him to stack at home, when nothing exciting is going on around him)

Anyone else with a roachy dog notice this? Just a normal, relaxed stand...they look roachy....but when they are fully focussed on something, tail is straight up, and the back goes straight? Is it something that as he matures, might correct itself? He's 2.5 years old.
Title: Re: Roachbacks...
Post by: BoxerWB on May 02, 2010, 06:17:32 PM
Do you have any good pics of his "roach"??

I suspect that a "real" roachback can't go away.  Xena can't straighten herself out not matter how excited she is. It is hard to see when she's stretched out (back legs behind her, leaning forward), but structurally it is still there.

It is possible he's just got something akin to bad posture? The structure is sound but he carries himself in an odd way?
Title: Re: Roachbacks...
Post by: Rubidawg on May 02, 2010, 06:20:02 PM
I'm sure I do. I've got plenty of him standing around. LOL Will have to search. I've wondered if it's just bad posture.....from like sitting on his hips and rolling backwards on the couch, etc, causing him bad posture. He looks GORGEOUS when he stands nice and straight. Have had people from the club ask if I'm showing him. But then if he's just being a lazy-butt, I look at that topline and say, "stand up straight, buddy!" lol

I'll try to find a good, straight on pic.
Title: Re: Roachbacks...
Post by: Samsons Mom on May 02, 2010, 06:27:07 PM
I noticed the same thing with Samson lately, especially this weekend. He puts himself into a self stack when hes alert. His got a little roach back, but his back looks more smooth now that hes maturing.
Title: Re: Roachbacks...
Post by: Rubidawg on May 02, 2010, 06:27:53 PM
My 2nd pb account is giving me error/virus messages, so can't pull up anything more recent than this photo (from my first pb account) - which is last summer, and probably about the straightest side view I have in that account....

(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c389/Dawn2376/The%20Dawgs/IMG_5767.jpg)

This is pretty close to how he stands on a normal basis. When he stands in class (or barking at something in the backyard, lol), that lil hump on the back totally straightens out, and he looks nice and square with his tail straight up.
Title: Re: Roachbacks...
Post by: BoxerPerson on May 02, 2010, 08:05:27 PM
Willie seems to have a roached back once in a while too...but when on alert or something has his attention his back is straight.  Seems he "roaches" when he is tired or naughty!
Title: Re: Roachbacks...
Post by: BoxerWB on May 02, 2010, 08:48:50 PM
I'm pretty sure that isn't a roachback, at very least it doesn't look anything like what Xena has, which I've been told is a roachback:

(http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j110/JuliaRue/XenaDash/XenaStand.jpg)
Title: Re: Roachbacks...
Post by: Rubidawg on May 02, 2010, 11:09:25 PM
I think Xena's is just far more pronounced and looks to be a bit "herring" gut too, making it seem worse than Grady's. I dont think Grady's is that bad, but I think his topline is definitely lacking...except for when he stands real strong/focussed.

I'll see if Shawn will go to class this week and get some pics of us stacking so you can see the difference. I'm sure structurally.....it's still there, but maybe he just straightens out when he's really focussing in on something.
Title: Re: Roachbacks...
Post by: blynn03 on May 03, 2010, 08:12:13 AM
In that pic it just sort of looks like a bit of a bumpy topline and a bit of falling off at the croup.  I'm not sure if he's got a roach back from that pic, maybe a teeny bit but I don't think so. 

I think the fact that the transition at his shoulders isn't the smoothest and the fact that he falls off a bit at the croup makes his back look a bit "rounded" like a roach back, but I don't think he's got much of a true roach, if any.
Title: Re: Roachbacks...
Post by: Theresa on May 03, 2010, 10:39:17 AM
I don't really think he has a problem, IMHO.  If you moved his feet back 1/2"-1 " the roaching would smooth out.  Whereas with Xena, if you moved her feet to the proper stacked position, you'd still see some roaching. 

His topline needs to be a bit smoother in transition to his neck which I think would be a bit more pronounced if his head/neck were back a bit.

Title: Re: Roachbacks...
Post by: BurningRiver on May 22, 2010, 08:49:49 AM
Typically, with toplines, you see things in other areas that contribute to the appearance of "roaching".

In other words, it's pretty typical for issues like upright shoulder (scapula that is set at an angle that tilts too far forward) to cause a dip behind the withers. When combined with a low tailset and falling off at the croup, both issues can work in combination to make a dog appear "roachy". Typically, if you work on correcting these issues, the topline will work itself out.
Title: Re: Roachbacks...
Post by: Mom2three on November 28, 2010, 12:37:34 PM
Reekos topline is just like gradys.... Im hoping that when we go back into the show ring ill figure out a way to stack him so it looks straight. If I stack him it looks really bad but if he free stacks he looks alright..... have to find some bait that he will go for lol he hates dog treats for some reason
Title: Re: Roachbacks...
Post by: BurningRiver on November 28, 2010, 01:05:19 PM
One thing that can hide a poor topline is weight. I'm sure his just looks poorly right now because he needs weight.
Title: Re: Roachbacks...
Post by: Mom2three on November 28, 2010, 01:13:27 PM
That is very true Jess. Sorry for highjacking but with the weight issue....would putting him on puppy food help with that? Right now they are eating Blue Buff Fish and Sweet potato and are doing extremly well....the TOTW spiraled down hill with both having explosive poos. Now they are nice and solid. Hes eating about 4 cups a day and if he gets anymore his poos turn soft :(
Title: Re: Roachbacks...
Post by: Theresa on November 28, 2010, 01:16:02 PM
Search the forum for satin balls. They help to put weight on quick
Title: Re: Roachbacks...
Post by: Mom2three on November 28, 2010, 01:16:34 PM
Heres the pic I took of when I stacked him a couple nights ago...He doesnt look skinny in the pics but when you see him in person and get your hands on him you can feel and see almost everybone in his body :(
(http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv209/millerhurstsibes/Reeko/DSCN4534.jpg)

And heres another
(http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv209/millerhurstsibes/Reeko/DSCN4500.jpg)

Again sorry for highjacking
Title: Re: Roachbacks...
Post by: BurningRiver on November 28, 2010, 01:29:08 PM
I'd not rush it. It took a long time to make him look like that, it should take just as long to put the weight back on. If you're seeing loose stool, it's because you've gone too fast. Just feed him an extra quarter cup per meal and increase his meals to 3-4x per day and he should be fine.

He does look skinny to me in the pics. I don't want to see the shadow before his hips, nor that last rib. That said, I don't see spine, which is good.

When you're stacking him, don't worry about his tail. Use bait, and work on getting his head positioned prior to worrying about the tail. Getting him to lean into his front a bit more will also help the topline issues.
Title: Re: Roachbacks...
Post by: Hanna Banana on November 28, 2010, 06:43:35 PM
He does look like he can use a little weight and that will help fill him out, however he looks to have a break in his topline and looks like he falls off at the croup a bit.  Again he is not stacked how you normally would to firm up my comments on his structure, but from the photos thats is what I am seeing, and not sure weight will fix it. 

Glad you have him back Cindi!!!   
Title: Re: Roachbacks...
Post by: Mom2three on November 29, 2010, 09:54:00 AM
This was a pic from just before I rehomed him

(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j79/stormyboxers/reekostack4.jpg)
Title: Re: Roachbacks...
Post by: blynn03 on November 29, 2010, 11:57:47 AM
He does look like he can use a little weight and that will help fill him out, however he looks to have a break in his topline and looks like he falls off at the croup a bit.  Again he is not stacked how you normally would to firm up my comments on his structure, but from the photos thats is what I am seeing, and not sure weight will fix it. 

Glad you have him back Cindi!!!   

I agree with Heather, these issues are still apparent even in the before picture where he's at a better weight.
Title: Re: Roachbacks...
Post by: BurningRiver on November 30, 2010, 04:49:30 PM
He's posting in the second photo, meaning, he's rocking back and not really leaning down and into his chest. Using bait will help to correct this. Getting him to lean into his chest is would be the human equivalent of the "head up, chest out, shoulders down/shoulders back" they teach in achieving correct posture. Don't worry about his tail--you work on the tail later.

From a construction perspective, he is a bit high in the rear (caused by his fairly straight stifle) and has a low tailset. That said, it's my understanding that you're just looking to show him presently, and working on the things I've mentioned above, plus getting a bit of weight on him will help hide these things.

With that said, these issues will become noticeable again when you move him, and there's not much you can do about that, other than find a speed that best minimizes it and keep his head up while moving.

While my girl is posting a bit in this photo as well, mostly, she looks the way she should when stacked appropriately.

(http://www.burningriverboxers.com/images/boxers/mia_2yr_stack.jpg)

Hopefully this helps.
Title: Re: Roachbacks...
Post by: Mom2three on November 30, 2010, 09:25:56 PM
Thanks Jess! Im not really looking to get into anything serious with him as I know he probably wouldnt do well lol.....I just thought of going into some smaller local shows just for fun :) Gives me something to do...maybe when the kids have grown and I have more time on my hands I will purchase a show pup from a good breeder and really get into it....until then its all for fun  :yes: If he does good then great if not thats ok too.....wont upset me lol
Title: Re: Roachbacks...
Post by: Christina on January 01, 2011, 11:02:00 AM
Lucky annd Star both have roach backs.  Star's is really bad, he is just horrible in the conformation department.  Is there any way to improve the roaching appearance?  Are there problems associated with it?  I know Star has horrible spondylosis, is that associated with roaching?
Title: Re: Roachbacks...
Post by: RocketBoxer on January 01, 2011, 01:26:37 PM
Star's is really bad, he is just horrible in the conformation department.  Is there any way to improve the roaching appearance?  Are there problems associated with it?  I know Star has horrible spondylosis, is that associated with roaching?

I wouldn't be surprise if the spondylosis is not contributing to the problem. I know that problems in the rear end will often cause a dog to appear roached when actually they aren't so would think that a spine problem could well do the same thing.
Title: Re: Roachbacks...
Post by: Christina on January 01, 2011, 03:41:44 PM
Here are a couple pictures of Star from the side, he wasn't too happy about getting them taken, but he has an obvious dip midway down his back, and then the spine sticking up.  We are trying to get weight on him, it has been a constant battle!

(http://i877.photobucket.com/albums/ab339/vnc72404/DSC02227.jpg)

(http://i877.photobucket.com/albums/ab339/vnc72404/DSC02230.jpg)

Here is one of Lucky, his roach isn't as pronounced as Star's, but it is there

(http://i877.photobucket.com/albums/ab339/vnc72404/DSC02228.jpg)
Title: Re: Roachbacks...
Post by: Mom2Rocky on January 01, 2011, 11:18:27 PM
I'm not sure what to call Rocky's back.. It isn't straight though.. I was wondering if this would effect him in agility at some point. He seems to always have an arch.. which does sometimes level out during movement..

@ 10 months

(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q101/PogosGoddess/10months/e683e6b5.jpg)

@ 13 months..
(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q101/PogosGoddess/62c4bcfb.jpg)

(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q101/PogosGoddess/7bb5efb0.jpg)