Correlation between MCT and allergies

[bombersmama]

I asked my vet this question when Bomber was diagnosed with a MCT.  I asked her if there was a correlation between MCT and allergies since both tend to be related to histamines in the body.  She told me no.  MCT's can just happen even in dogs with no allergy issues.  I am starting to doubt what she said.  I am really thinking in my mind that there is a relation and she was wrong.  It would just make sense.  I might be wrong myself but I am think I am going to really look into this.  To start I am curious to know how many of you on this forum have a boxer with bad allergies or just allergies in general and has found a MCT on him/her.  Also if you know of people in the same situation...My curiousity may lead me to a brick wall but it is something that has been weighing heavy on my mind ever since Bomber had his tumor removed. 

[Bruins_Boxer]

Not really going to help you but .
None of my 3 boxers had allergies and none had any MCT's . MY lab aslo had no allergies or MCT's .
1 and possibly another boxer and my lab did die of other cancers .

[BoxerWB]

Xena has mild allergies - her eyes get a little goopy in late summer, she used to get hives when she ran through high grass at the park, I suspect a mild lamb allergy.. she's never had severe symptoms from anything) and she had Stage 1 MCT on her neck.

May or may not be related, but the hives from the grass did often go up on her chest/neck. But they were more densely grouped on the lowest part of her chest and only night on her neck.

[Bumpy]

Interesting theory....... be good to hear what may come out of it.

[Rubidawg]

Rubi just had a Grade 2 MCT removed from her paw. I've been doing as much research as I possibly can on this, and find it very interesting. Peronsally, I don't think MCT's will "cause" allergies, but I do believe that it can increase the sensitivity to them. Rubi was never very "allergic" - she'd have flare ups here and there, only ever broke out into hives once since we've had her (matter of fact, I think that was around the time I noticed the lump on her paw, hmmm). Her problem was more in the tummy issue category, and I have to wonder if some of her tummy issues were from the MCT. It's possible that there could be a correlation b/t MCT's and allergies, but I don't think it's that they would cause them....since the histamines go out of wack with an MCT, I think it just increases the chance of flare ups and sensitivity to certain things. - if that makes any sense? LOL

[bombersmama]

I just wish vets in research programs would take more time on this issue.  Around here all they seem to know about MCT is if it is diagnosed then to remove it because it can be deadly.  It seems like no one is really studying into it.  I did just read though that NC State's vet dept is doing thorough studies on brain tumors in boxers but nothing on MCT.  I did read too that MCT can cause intestinal distress.  I was reading alot of studies last night to and no one seems to know why MCT's form.  There is a link somewhere in these dogs and someone is bound to find it. 

This is what i was going to do if i went to vet school...I was going to focus on oncology.  I just feel like we have better care for cancer in humans than we do in dogs.  Which makes sense in a way but why not give dogs a better chance to survive as well?

[Renee]

Interesting side note:

My friend Vera got me started on the Tagament/Benedryl Therapy for my dogs earlier this year - I am too short on time to do a 'summary' but here's a link to her info about it -

http://veraboxers.com/cancer.htm

[Rubidawg]

Interesting article, Renee. But what about the cells that cause the actual MCT, this seems to just reduce the tumor? Am I reading that right?

Rubi was on antibiotics and benedryl for a month. She was on antibiotics b/c she busted open her lump - which at the time, she had it for almost 2 years without any change in size, it was very tiny and hardly noticeable - and it got infected. We put her on benedryl with it, as a precaution b/c my vet was concerned of the possibility of MCT. The lump was HUGE after it got infected and after 2 weeks of antib's and bennie, it did decrease in size, but never went back down to the size her lump was originally, it was still bigger than before. Even after a month on the meds, it never fully shrank, so removal was our option. So, I'm curious about this, and adding the tagament. Wonder what it is about that combo that your friend has had such great success over it. And does it actually reduce the cells in the bloodstream, or just shrink the lumps? Intersting...

[bombersmama]

Interesting article, Renee. But what about the cells that cause the actual MCT, this seems to just reduce the tumor? Am I reading that right?

Rubi was on antibiotics and benedryl for a month. She was on antibiotics b/c she busted open her lump - which at the time, she had it for almost 2 years without any change in size, it was very tiny and hardly noticeable - and it got infected. We put her on benedryl with it, as a precaution b/c my vet was concerned of the possibility of MCT. The lump was HUGE after it got infected and after 2 weeks of antib's and bennie, it did decrease in size, but never went back down to the size her lump was originally, it was still bigger than before. Even after a month on the meds, it never fully shrank, so removal was our option. So, I'm curious about this, and adding the tagament. Wonder what it is about that combo that your friend has had such great success over it. And does it actually reduce the cells in the bloodstream, or just shrink the lumps? Intersting...

It is interesting but I was thinking the same to.  If the lump is shrunk or completely gone couldnt the cells still be there? 

[Renee]

But what about the cells that cause the actual MCT, this seems to just reduce the tumor? Am I reading that right?

Maybe I'm not reading it right, but I'm not a vet :

Histamine is also one of the compounds the body secretes to inhibit an immune response. Histamine can be released in the tumor environment and act to suppress the immune response that the body may mount to attack a tumor. If cimetidine inhibited this suppression, then the immune system may be able to build up a more effective response to the tumor and the cancer could be attacked by the immune system.

It was postulated that cimetidine may exert an effect on the ability of cancer cells to metastasize. Indeed, it was recently found that cimetidine does inhibit the ability of cancer cells to attach to vascular endothelium. It was then discovered that cimetidine inhibits the expression of E-selectin (ELAM-1) which is one of the molecules in blood vessels that cancer cells adhere to using their own cell surface ligands, Lewis X and Lewis A.4 These are carbohydrate groups on the surface on certain cancer cells that allow them to bind to E-selectin.

The way I read that, cancer cells are attacked by the immune system, prevented from growing and spreading, and prevented from attaching themselves to the body, reducing the cancers ability to attack the body.

[BoxerPerson]

Interesting...I am buying the Tagament today...have the bennedryl already.  Thanks Renee

[Rubidawg]

Ahhhhh that's a bit clearer, thank you Renee!
I missed the article linked within the article.

[BurningRiver]

Histamine can be released in the tumor environment and act to suppress the immune response that the body may mount to attack a tumor.

I don't understand this either. . . Histamine release is the body's response to a foreign invader. Antihistimaines, like Benedryl, inhibit the body's ability to release histamines. I've always understood histamines to be the immune response. . . I don't understand how they'd suppress the immune response.

I've always thought cancer to be the ultimate failure of the immune system, and a change/mutation at the cellular level. Normal cells know to stop growing, yet cancer cells continue growing. There is a plethora of research currently ongoing regarding "training" the immune system (either via a vaccine -- and they're currently doing this with some types of uterine cancer -- or drug therapy) to attack cancer cells. . . But I'm not sure how drugs that fall into the class of H2 blockers would accomplish this (given that they're designed to suppress immune response in some respects).

I hate to be a skeptic, but the Life Extension article that was linked to on the site is extremely off-putting. . . I'd not trust it as an authoritative source for medical information, but that's just me.

I do see Vera's point in that there's absolutely no harm in giving it a try though. Both drugs are completely benign and couldn't hurt, but I'd just hate to see people doing this instead of working on their vet's recommendations (whether it be surgery or otherwise).

[RocketBoxer]

FWIW - I have had 2 boxers who have had MCT's removed and neither of them suffered from any allergies.

[RocketBoxer]

My friend Vera got me started on the Tagament/Benedryl Therapy for my dogs earlier this year - I am too short on time to do a 'summary' but here's a link to her info about it -

BTW Renee, I thought I read somewhere that you found that this regimen worked to reduce gum growths - do I have this right?